Wait! Don't Buy Vista!

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Cholly, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. Feb 11, 2007 #41 of 126
    CoriBright

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    1. Yes
    2. Ask Vegas Video manufacturers. Or someone on a Vegas forum who has already tried. I can tell you most of my encoding softwares run much faster but I don't use Vegas.
    3. No.. it includes Windows Defender (antispyware) but if you want A/V, buy one yourself. Symantec intended to sue MS for billions if MS included A/V.
    4. Sync exactly what? Impossible to answer without more info
    5. Remote Desktop.... depending on which version of Vista you get

    For your friend..... he can return the product to MS and get a full refund.
    http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp
     
  2. Feb 11, 2007 #42 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    Don, I agree with this philosophy 100%, especially for the masses. I also think people/corporations who upgrade to every new release of Office must have deep pockets and rocks in their heads.

    For me, I like the look and feel of Vista. Now that I've used it for a while, navigation and features make more sense to me than they did initially. I'm convinced that MSFT will continue to refine the base product over time.

    If you've got a test machine and you want to tinker around with it, drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you the RC1 disk I've got and you can hack around with it. The license covers 10 installs, so you'll have no issues there.

    In my case, I'm mostly interested in what they do with the media center capabilities. I run MCE 2005 on my home theater PC and am looking to replace that with Vista just as soon as some of the driver issues get sorted out.

    John
     
  3. Feb 11, 2007 #43 of 126
    Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule!

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    Indian...
  4. Feb 11, 2007 #44 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    Yeah, Charley and this guy probably doubles as their restaurant reviewer. Here's a link that will get you to some totally unbiased information on the benefits of Vista.

    Happy reading!!

    John
     
  5. Feb 11, 2007 #45 of 126
    DonLandis

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    John- Thanks for the offer but I really don't have the time to tinker. Got 13 shows shot, needing edited and they have to be done by the end of the month.

    As for your "needs" from what I saw at CES MS demo sessions, Yes, a home media center will sing with Vista, especially on a HTPC and a media server for your LAN. No doubt about that. I don't use a HTPC and don't intend to. I'm quite happy with the HT system I have now. Of the 13 PC's including 1 MAC, I have now 9 are designed for video editing of SD video and 1 for HD video. So that is why I wanted to see how Vista could improve my work place. As for the deep pockets companies, You must be aware that these companies, including where my wife works buys the annual licences for the latest software, and for many workstations. I don't recall what it is but it is far less than buying a copy like we would for every machine. Its a blanket license type thing.
     
  6. Feb 11, 2007 #46 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    In another 20 minutes, I'll be running a production version of Vista on my desktop. I got a full version of Ultimate for $75 and I'm taking advantage of the family pack offering. I'm upgrading the desktop to Home Premium for $50. I think it's a smart strategy for MSFT to offer packaged upgrades like this directly.

    Unless your wife's company just has money to burn and isn't overly concerned about staff downtime with upgrades, you might want to suggest they take a look at their licensing strategy. Even if the upgrades are less expensive than their retail brothern, it begs the question about how much value you're getting with the software upgrades in the first place.

    Your original premise on O/S strategy is correct, Don. And when it comes to Office, a strategy that has you upgrading every other version when you replace your hardware (assuming 4-5 yr. replacement cycle) works well, especially if you have your vendor installing your then standard s/w image for you.

    John
     
  7. Feb 12, 2007 #47 of 126
    DonLandis

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    I understand many companies use the blanket licensing when they run 150+ computers.
     
  8. Feb 12, 2007 #48 of 126
    CoriBright

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    It's called Volume Licensing and starts at just 5 licenses... and not all have to be an O/S.. for example it could be three licenses for Vista and two for Office.

    http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/default.mspx
     
  9. Feb 12, 2007 #49 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    Upgrade went smooth as silk. Absolutely no issues and this was with a desktop that's probably 3 years old. Vista runs like a champ!!

    The agency I worked with had thousands of desktops (10K IIRC) and we were covered by an Enterprise Agreement with MSFT. These agreements are a very expensive way to manage desktop O/S and Office requirements, especially when upgrades drag on as was the case with XP.

    John
     
  10. Feb 12, 2007 #50 of 126
    Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule!

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    Indian...
    John, I'll cheerfully grant that many users will have no problem installing Vista. However, folks with entry level systems (onboard graphics, 512K or less RAM) will find themselves in for some sticker shock, assunimg they've had the wisdom to run the upgrade advisor and performed a full system backupprior to going ahead with the install. If they weren't wise, they'll really have problems.
    Here's an article by Preston Gralla, author of "Windows Vista in a Nutshell", entitled "Hidden Costs of a Windows Vista Upgrade". Caveat Emptor.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/128930-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws
     
  11. Feb 12, 2007 #51 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    If you have an entry level system, the issue is pretty simple - Don't upgrade!!!. Anyone who incrementally upgrades a basic desktop these days has rocks in their head. They also have a couple of screws loose for buying an entry system in the first place.

    John
     
  12. Feb 13, 2007 #52 of 126
    Nick

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    I agree with your first point, John, but for those people who just want to do email
    and surf a few web sites, a basic "entry-level" system is fine. I have a friend who
    just uses her pc to play Solitaire and another who plays Bingo online. I also have
    two correspondents who use WebTV.

    Go Figure. :shrug:
     
  13. Feb 13, 2007 #53 of 126
    Capmeister

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    512 K?

    I do believe my PHONE has more memory than that. ;)
     
  14. Feb 13, 2007 #54 of 126
    Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule!

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    Indian...
    :blush: :icon_lol: :whatdidid :rolling: Slip of the finger, I guess. Never make a post when you're tired! I had a PCjr with more memory than that!
     
  15. Feb 13, 2007 #55 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    Good point. But I'll bet for every one of those users who use their PC for intermittent, low end use; I'll be you'll find a bunch more who discover their PC can actually be used for other things, end up upgrading, and at much more expense than if they'd made the incremental jump when they first ordered the system.

    John
     
  16. Feb 13, 2007 #56 of 126
    rdr

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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
     
  17. Feb 14, 2007 #57 of 126
    Cholly

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    Indian...
    At the risk of being identified as being a naysaying curmudgeon, here's yet another article about the woes of people upgrading to Vista -- this time, hard core gamers.
    Seems that Vista just isn't ready for Prime Time. Even with new drivers from the peripheral manufacturers, the problems these folks are having won't go away. To me, this bears some resemblance to the Windows ME and BOB debacles. I was assured by a Microsoft rep that ME fixed the USB problems that existed in Windows 98, and bought it. WRONG! It was less stable than 98 and I quickly uninstalled it.

    Read on: http://www.pcworld.com/article/128961-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws
     
  18. Feb 14, 2007 #58 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    Charlie - While it's good to get different perspectives on issues like this, I'm not sure gamers' views have much to do with mainstream computing.

    It seems like you're trying to mount a campaign against Vista based only on what you've read in various rags. If you're that concerned about the quality of the product, why not go out and buy a copy, the upgrades aren't that expensive. Heck, I'll even send you my RC1 disk and you can install Ultimate and tinker with it free of charge before it expires. Hell, I'll even pay the postage.

    No one, even MSFT, has said this is a perfect product. I've already received a couple of automatic updates, one of which dealt with driver issues, one of the weak links in any major upgrade. My HTPC has (had now) an M-Audio card in it. I spoke with the manufacturer's tech staff a couple of weeks ago and they have no idea when they'll put out new drivers. Is that MSFT's problem?? Of course not. Does it cause problems with upgrading to Vista?? Sure.

    Life doesn't always give us clear cut choices. This is one of those where if you believe the benefits you'll receive from the upgrade are greater than the cost and you've got the disposable income to support the decision (and you have 5 versions of Vista with different price points to deal with), then you'll make the jump.

    IIRC, 80 some percent of MSFT's revenue from O/S comes from OEM installations, not from upgrades. What I find most interesting about Vista is all of the different options MSFT has set up for those who do want to upgrade. Provides interesting grist for the mill if you want to speculate about where MSFT is going with their future product.

    John
     
  19. Feb 14, 2007 #59 of 126
    Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule!

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    John-- yup, I've read quite a few articles about Vista -- some of which rave, and others that rant. For the most part, they were written by people well respected in the PC field. My purpose in starting this thread and posting links to negative comments is to make others aware that the OS is not without its problems, and definitely is not for everyone. If that amounts to mounting a campaign against Vista, so be it. Microsoft has been aggressively promoting Vista just about everywhere, and Joe Average might just be sucked in by their marketing hype. They haven't done a good job of advising people to run the Upgrade Advisor before purchasing Vista. This has resulted in a lot of people having had a very bad upgrade experience. Even if they open the package and run the Advisor, they may well discover that their computer (which may be only 6 months old) isn't capable of running Vista without extensive upgrades. Is Vista a good OS? I'm certain it is. There are a lot of folks like you who have upgraded to Vista and had no problems whatsoever or very minor problems.
    As for me, I have three computers running XP Service pack 2 (to be correct, one of them is running MCE2005 Service pack 2 and the others are running XP Home).
    I've run Vista Upgrade advisor on my HTPC, which is my most used system, and there are both hardware and software issues. There are (presently) incompatibility issues with my AverMedia MCE500 TV/FM tuner card and with the network controller on my motherboard. There are driver issues with my ATI Radeon 9550 graphics card and my Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse.
    If I were to upgrade, it would only be on my HTPC, and I suspect that I'd have to upgrade from 1 GB to two GB of RAM. That would require the purchase of two 1 GB memory modules, since my motherboard has only 2 memory slots and each has a 512 GB module installed. Also, the upgrade path would have to be to Vista Premium. I'm not prepared to drop over $200 at this point in time.
     
  20. Feb 14, 2007 #60 of 126
    JM Anthony

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    I disagree with you that they're not doing a good job of telling folks about Upgrade Advisor. It's right there on MSFT's primary web page on Vista info. And if someone buys Vista without going through UA first, it's one of the first options they see in the installation menu. If it turns out they have issues, they can get a refund and return the product.

    Like you, my primary target for Vista is my HTPC which is also running MCE 2005 SP2. Like you, right now I have some driver issues (HDTV card), so I'm not installing Vista on it at the present time. Mine is set up with 2 gigs of RAM so I'm ready to rock and roll once the driver issues are resolved. Best guess, another couple of months.

    So when everything is said and done, our perspectives on Vista aren't all that different. LOL

    John
     

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