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War on Drugs-Futile or Necessary?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Rich, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. Feb 3, 2011 #21 of 165
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Oxy is a prescription med and would not be affected by any of the laws discussed.

    There might be some advantages to legalizing the products if they seriously clamped down on the peripheral criminal activities of the kind in Northern California.

    Use a firearm to 'enforce' anything related to a transaction, get 10 years, no parole.
     
  2. Feb 3, 2011 #22 of 165
    SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Cocaine was legal at one time and was used by some pharmacies. Then there's the Coca-Cola story.
     
  3. Feb 3, 2011 #23 of 165
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    :confused:
    Oxycontin is legal with a prescription.
     
  4. Feb 3, 2011 #24 of 165
    phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Huh? I'm not proposing to legalize murder?

    The issue has to do with the law and drugs and money. Making drugs illegal creates an artificial market with a highly inflated price.

    Phillip Morris is used to producing regulated cigarettes and could easily produce marijuana products at a relatively low cost, without risks to employees. Where there is no extraordinary profit, criminals won't compete in growing and manufacturing.

    By reducing the income of the cartels, we would be much more effectively reducing their influence and activity than we are engaging in "The War on Drugs."

    Yes, we would have to regulate drugs just like we do alcohol and tobacco. And yes, just like alcohol, many employers will have rules. In some cases, like for truck drivers, the rules make sense. In other cases, not so much. But employers have rights too.
     
  5. Feb 3, 2011 #25 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You're proposing to legalize drugs to prevent murder. If killing people is the way to get laws changed in this country how many people need to be killed before murder is legalized?

    It seems odd to reward criminals. But if that is what you want ...
     
  6. Feb 3, 2011 #26 of 165
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There are many out west who don't use drugs, but still feel they are socially acceptable.

    As for "drug testing" and employers, where is the line drawn?

    When I had to work in the Alert area, I couldn't even take "contact" for a cold, without losing my access.
    When I hurt my back and had to take vicodin, should this mean I'm no longer eligible to work at my job?

    Better testing I think is needed where the results are more reflective of if one is under the influence, like driving or being a pilot.
    Can one who is a long term alcohol abuser currently be excluded from employment in Indiana?
     
  7. Feb 3, 2011 #27 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It is called zero tolerance.

    Yes.
     
  8. Feb 3, 2011 #28 of 165
    phrelin

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    So repealing Prohibition was rewarding criminals? Yes, in a sense. But sometimes we make it desirable to create criminal enterprises. And sometimes we have to rethink that.
     
  9. Feb 3, 2011 #29 of 165
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    To what "all drugs", or all but prescription drugs?

    I just don't think there is such a clear cut line and one that would or should hold up in court.

    Now mind you, there is no test I wouldn't pass, so this is me merely questioning all of this.
     
  10. Feb 3, 2011 #30 of 165
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This is what you get for forward thinking or being open minded.

    I think if one were to go back to around 1900, all drugs were legal.

    Do we still have our strategic reserves of Helium?
    I mean we don't want the Germans to get it. :lol:
     
  11. Feb 3, 2011 #31 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The repeal of prohibition was for more reasons than just to prevent criminals from killing people in the woods. Come up with a better reason to legalize drugs than to appease people committing crimes (crimes other than the illegal use of the substance).

    There is a list of drugs that employers commonly test for ... most of them are illegal, all of them are known to be abused. Get them out of your system, pass the test and you'll be fine. Test positive and you won't be hired and (when it becomes law) will lose your unemployment benefits.

    As noted, Indiana is an at will work state. As long as no discrimination is shown (age, race, religion, sexuality, etc) an employer doesn't need a reason not to hire or to fire an employee. (There are union employers that work under union contracts - but they have their own anti-drug agreements and are more likely to test than not test.)

    Employed people generally get help ... but some employers just push people out the door - and it is legal. Prospective employees simply are not hired if they fail the tests. There is no law I know of protecting substance abuse.
     
  12. Feb 3, 2011 #32 of 165
    paulman182

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    Yes, Oxy is legal with a prescription. The recreational users I have know bought theirs from people who had prescriptions.

    Would this be legal? Or would we just legalize cocaine? Would morphine require a prescription?
     
  13. Feb 3, 2011 #33 of 165
    Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    Cocaine was used as an anesthetic for dental work in the late 1800's through early-mid 1900's.

    In the HBO drama Boardwalk Empire, the FBI agent took a wounded witness to a dentist's office. The dentist used cocaine as a pain reliever while the agent questioned him.
     
  14. Feb 3, 2011 #34 of 165
    veryoldschool

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    I seem to remember someone is the 70s having oral surgery and having his first dose of cocaine during it.
     
  15. Feb 3, 2011 #35 of 165
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    As does my company. The main reason is because it's ILLEGAL. If pot (for example) were to become LEGAL, we (and most companies, I believe) would no longer have that as part of their drug testing for the same reasons we don't currently do any alcohol testing.
     
  16. Feb 3, 2011 #36 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Companies are not limited to just illegal drugs. While your company may have more of an open mind toward drug use, other companies are not required to follow suit.
     
  17. Feb 3, 2011 #37 of 165
    spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Nope, not required to drug test at all.

    However, as I said, not many have pre-employment alcohol tests. Why not? It's a drug. They also don't have nicotine tests. Why not? It's a drug.

    But they're legal. If pot were legal, very very few companies would continue to test for it.
     
  18. Feb 3, 2011 #38 of 165
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I am not a drinker... but I support other people's interest in drinking as long as they don't push it on me or harm me in some direct way (like drinking and driving).

    That said...

    Out of prohibition we got back alcohol BUT the government kept most of the other stuff illegal... which is probably what was really desired all along.

    The flip side is that legal alcohol consumption has led to illegal activities when people drink too much or do things they should not while drinking. There is never even a hint of making alcohol illegal or having a "war" on it...

    Drugs. I am neither tempted nor curious or have I even seen any except for on film or TV. No desire. I'm not sure about legalizing it... but I would like to see enforcement dropped.

    If a guy is on drugs and breaks some other law... hit with with that violation + the drug use on top of that. I'm fine with that. But don't hide and wait to see if he just has or buys or sells it... Leave that alone and stop wasting that time and money.

    The drive to avoid being arrested for purchase/sale is what pushes the price up and the crimes related to it... IF we got rid of all that... and just prosecuted drug-related crimes when they are in tandem with another crime... then it would be on par with other things.

    Using guns as an example.

    It is legal to carry a gun if you have a permit. It is not legal to rob a store... BUT if you rob a store with a gun that you legally own... they typically charge you additional fine/jail time for that... but they don't wait outside the store and frisk you for a gun and take you away for that unless you use it to commit a crime.
     
  19. Feb 3, 2011 #39 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Not required, but permitted. Perhaps if you re-read my posts until you figure out what I'm saying it will help?

    Companies CAN screen for pretty much anything they want. It is up to the company.
     
  20. Feb 3, 2011 #40 of 165
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    But a business or an employer CAN post a sign on their door that says "no loaded guns beyond this point". BTW: The last time I saw that sign was at the entrance to a gun range.

    A business can post and enforce a sign limiting underaged customers (even if they are not "adult" businesses) or set pretty much any restriction they want. If the employer says no guns, no alcohol, no drugs they can - within the limit of the laws.
     

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