We need a healtcare system like in canada.

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Steveox, Sep 10, 2004.

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  1. Danny R

    Danny R Goblin the Pug DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Millions of poor people in America (as well as illegal aliens) go to emergency rooms in the US and receive treatment and never pay for it themselves.

    I know that its illegal to turn away someone with an life threatening emergency, so this is true. However the key word is emergency. One can't just walk into a hospital and get whatever bloodwork or other preventative medicine done.

    I have no experience or info at all however on how medicaid works. From a quick glance, besides possibly citizenship (not certain), what prevents the poor from applying for medicaid and getting medical help in that fashion? As I stated, I have no experience with it, but from the looks of things the "poor" certainly can get medical help.

    I'm guessing that the "uninsured poor" are actually actually lower and middle class folks who work jobs without benefits, and thus make more money than medicaid requires. Thus by government standards they are not the absolute poor, and thus are expected to buy their own health insurance. Anybody know how much such a policy would cost for someone?
     
  2. Observer

    Observer Guest

    One thing that really bugs me about healthcare is that I cannot take my $$$'s from work and shop for my OWN plan someplace else.

    That is just really crazy.

    I'd love to be able to do that and get a bare bones package for catastrophic type coverage.

    Why are people FORCED to get their coverage from their employer?
     
  3. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "I know that its illegal to turn away someone with an life threatening emergency, so this is true. However the key word is emergency. One can't just walk into a hospital and get whatever bloodwork or other preventative medicine done."

    Exactly the problem! Emergency care is the most expensive type of care. Last year, Oregon, because of budget shortfalls, eliminated thousands of people from the Oregon Health plan, but the "savings" ended up being negative. What happened was that when funding for most of the treatments and drug therapies ended, a high percentage of these patients became critical care and emergengy care indigents which cost the citizens of Oregon even more. We paid for it with a whopping 17% increase in insurance premiums this year.

    Nationally, businesses are now saying that the cost health care benefits are the biggest deterrent to adding jobs ot the economy. Outsourcing to those countries with "socialized medicine" is cheaper and makes the companie more productive.

    The malpractice issue is a red herring. Health care costs are going up because our population is aging and life expectancy is increasing. Either we, as a society, have to recognize a social responsibility to each other or eventually become so cold-hearted as to let more people die for lack of adeqare health care.

    And think about this. Why does Congress have a better health plan for themselves than do most Americans? If gubbaming health care is so bad, why won't our legislators switch over. I think all Americans should have the same level of coverage they do.

    And I am still waiting for the answer about how much the gubbamint paid for JerryRs dad and his operation.
     
  4. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "One thing that really bugs me about healthcare is that I cannot take my $$$'s from work and shop for my OWN plan someplace else.

    That is just really crazy."


    Well it is actually crazy to try to self-insure these days. I could have retired in 1990 but chose to continue to work because of helath care benefits. I currently pay about $50/month for health care. An individual policy would caost me about $1200/month. It would actually be more, but I have some veterans benefits due to a service-related condition.

    Living without health insurance is worse than driving without car insurance. If you are otherwise solvent (own a home for example) one significant surgery and hospital stay will wipe you out financially.

    That heart sugery on Jerry's dad easily cost $60-100K, probably more.
     
  5. Steveox

    Steveox Banned User

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    The only way to make health care affordtable is start making doctor pay in extras they're making way too much money. Like drivers have to pay extra just to have the privilege to drive their car.Like we have to pay for auto insurance,tags,license renewal fees and registration renewal fees. Start making doctors pay county and state medical permits,Medical license tax,county and state medical registration fees,Malpractice insurance and add sales tax in there and a few other ******** hidden fees. And that money goes to people who make under $35,000 a year to be able to get health care. Being a doctor is not a right its a privilege like driving your car.
     
  6. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    No need to do anything that radical, steve. Just open up more medical schools and let the law of supply and demand take effect as long as there are laws to prevent collusion on fee setting.

    Right now, when a area becomes overserved by doctors in a speciality, they all raise their rate rather than lower them.
     
  7. missileman

    missileman Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    How much money should a doctor be able to keep? A Lawyer? A Nurse? A Taxi Driver?
    Anyone can get emergency care if they need it.......
     
  8. Steveox

    Steveox Banned User

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    Well my dad told me he will never support a pro sports team ever again because the players make too much money. Well thats like saying i will never go to a doctor because they make too much money. But if you dont see a doctor the results could be fatal and even death. What choice do i have? I feel the same way about doctors like my dad feels about professional ballplayers.
     
  9. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Well wait until you get to be my age, Steve. Thats when they stick several things up your rear, for which you pay a lot of money. :)
     
  10. Steveox

    Steveox Banned User

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    Rich im already your age. And i dont let anyone to wear gloves and stick two fingers up my ass. If they do,Ill sue its as simple as that.
     
  11. skaeight

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    Steve, as much as it sucks, it's important to see the doctor for that kind fo thing. Colin / prostate cancer is easily preventable with early checkups. But I agree, I'm not looking forward to the day when I have to go to THAT appointment :nono:
     
  12. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Smoke and mirrors to defend the indefensible.
     
  13. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Which ends up costing US more than if we had a universal healthcare system. More and more hospitals are shutting down ERs because they can no longer cover the expense. Hospitals regularly turn patients away. They are only required to stabilize a patient in case of life-threatening trauma, then they can transfer the patient somewhere else, typically to a government-run hospital that is required by law to accept indigent patients. People who are not in life-threatening situations are most definitely turned away from non-government hospitals.

    I asked how many Canadians would trade THEIR system for OURS.
     
  14. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    I have, I stand behind what I wrote. I know the truth, not the Bushie/RNC propaganda.
     
  15. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Wrong. The same drug companies that we buy from also sell to Canada and other countries. The difference is that in Canada, the government can negotiate cheaper prices and institutes strict price controls which OUR government expressly forbids. In fact, now those same drug companies are threatening Canadian pharmacies that sell to US customers, cutting off their supplies.

    And guess who the biggest importer of drugs is in America: the drug companies. The majority of American drug companies develope and manufacture their products IN OTHER COUNTRIES and import them to the USA without having to pay import taxes and other tariffs that other industries must pay, simply because they've bought the right people in Congress to make sure the laws favor them.
     
  16. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Many of them are funded by the US Government, actually. And the laws that the drug companies purchased from our Congress give them the patents, not our government, even when the majority of the investment was from taxpayer subsidies.

    The pharmaceutical industries own public records show they spend 11% of revenue on research and development, which includes all the FDA testing. They spend 39% on marketing.
     
  17. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

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    Very thoughtful comment when proven wrong by actual facts.

    Then why do you continue to provide fabrications and exaggerations?
     
  18. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    You do that far too well, I could never compete with you in that regard.
     
  19. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

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    Still can't comment on the facts proving you wrong?
     
  20. pmichael

    pmichael Legend

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    There needs to be fundamental reform of the health system in this country as I see it. There are too many uninsured people, and while it may be technically correct to say the people without health insurance have access to it, that doesn't mean they have the means to purchase it. And health care costs keep rising faster than inflation, so it might be prudent to look at an alternative to our current system.

    The big pharmaceutical companies are undoubtedly gouging the American public with the full complicity of the government. How else could you explain a Medicare bill that prevents the government from negotiating prices and preventing the importation of drugs from Canada? And I have to say I have absolutely no sympathy for the drug companies. The drug companies own research and development efforts are often helped by government subsidies which ultimately come from all tax payers, and yet all the tax payers get back are huge costs for prescription drugs. Wonderful.

    I hear all this talk about holding the free market in such high regard. But guess what...we don't have a free market really. And all those who think government intervention is bad, should really hate Bush because he is doling out dollars to corporations like it is Christmas all the time. We are living in a corporatocracy with the laws written by and for corporations at the expense of everyone else(the Medicare bill is just one example of how corporations' influence directs the details of legislation). Wake up already, this notion of a free market is no longer a true reflection of today's America.
     
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