We need a healtcare system like in canada.

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Steveox, Sep 10, 2004.

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  1. pmichael

    pmichael Legend

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    Mar 25, 2002

    The example of lazy people does not refute the need for health care for all. There are many people working in jobs that do not provide benefits and pay low wages, how are these people supposed to purchase health care? So unless you feel people who work at jobs that do not provide medical insurance benefits are lazy, then the example cited really is beside the point.

    It should be clear as day that something fairly substantial should be done about health care in this country. Costs are spiraling out of control, which is the prime reason the number of uninsured keeps increasing. Even if some people think universal health care is a bad idea because it will cover "lazy" people, how can they not at least ensure all children are covered since presumably even the most right-wing nuts can't blame kids for their life situation?

    Just because I have health insurance through my employer doesn't make me think that this should not be a birthright of all Americans. Universal health care for all Americans is indeed possible but I guess our country has other priorities like funding useless projects like missile defense, and doling out billions to corporate interests.
     
  2. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Jan 11, 2004
    Well damn, I should inform everyone in southwest Virginia to pack up and move somewhere else! How dare they try to keep the houses and land their families have maintained for generations. How arrogant of them to expect to find a job where they can earn enough to take care of their families. How stupid of them to base their entire economy on shady fly-by-night companies like DuPont, Bassett Furniture, Fieldcrest-Canon, American of Martinsville, Tultex.

    Tell me, when the bill-collectors are threatening you at every turn, your house is being foreclosed, your unemployment insurance ran out 4 weeks ago and you've scrapped up the last bit of change you can find to buy some bread and milk for your kids, your vehicle has been repossessed... just how do you move to somewhere else?

    Your annecdotal examples of your tenents are hardly representative of the majority of people needing assistance.
     
  3. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Exactly. Do some of these people actually think that all employers give health insurance to their employees? Do they think the stock people at Wal-Mart, the clerks at the 7-11, the fast-food employees, etc. get insurance? Even if one is lucky enough to work enough hours at a place like Wal-Mart to qualify for their insurance plan, it is hardly a benefit as the cost of the meager coverage is not worth it.

    I wonder what sparks the attitude of "I got mine, screw everybody else" that seems to prevail among certain peoples now? So much for "compassionate conservatism".
     
  4. Richard King

    Richard King Hall Of Fame

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    Mar 25, 2002
    This is from that darn right wing organizaton, Reuters.
    Canada's once-proud public health system in crisis
    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14352624.htm
    Take notice of the bold, Bogy and Toenail.
     
  5. waydwolf

    waydwolf Icon

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    Feb 2, 2003
    There's the usual leftist rub. Accept our solution or get nothing at all. Better to be getting less than the total coverage we crow about and like it than do anything else.
     
  6. waydwolf

    waydwolf Icon

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    Feb 2, 2003
    No, you haven't, and it is quite obvious. The wealthy can pay for their own. Most of the middle class has health insurance plans. The lower class has a profusion of welfare coverage plans to make sure they stay alive. This country's health care system isn't a nanny state system. If people see fit to be imbeciles, and not partake of the bazillions of options out there, and get sick and die, that is their choice. Not a matter of the government mandating treatments at intervals of their choosing, not a matter of them not having access.

    Doctors and nurses do not work for free, research is not free, and the system, as bad as it is, is not completely saddled with the incompetence of government. Of course, if you had your way, it would be.
     
  7. JerryR

    JerryR Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 17, 2004
    Oh please. Spare me the John Kerry commercial. You do what you have to do to provide for yourself and your family. And, if you have any gumption at all, you've not let things get to the point of no return as you've described above. Typical of the left - cater to the lowest common denominator and set all of society's rules accordingly.
    Furthermore, I never said the examples I gave represented the majority of people needing assistance but you can bet there are millions just like them. AND, if you and PMICHAEL had bothered to thoroughly read my post, you'd discover that I have no problem helping those truly in need - so there's your compassionate conservatism. Compassionate conservatism also believes in helping people get back to being productive members of society unlike those of you on the far left who are perfectly willing to continue to throw trillions of dollars at people who make absolutely no effort in life to help themselves.
     
  8. waydwolf

    waydwolf Icon

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    Feb 2, 2003
    Their choice to stay there. Just as it is my choice to live in a city that is on the edge of falling further down the economic slope it already slid a fair ways down after the manufacturing economy went away here. You can't live in the past forever. You adapt or you get left behind. That simple. This is NOT the 19th century with quaint mills on waterways with manufacturing bases. We don't live in that world anymore. If the locals cannot find a new economic base for themselves, they need to move somewhere there is a decent economic base.

    I can make money in cable and DBS. I can't make money working a mill that no longer exists. That simple. I made my choice of vocations for now. When it pays too little, I choose something else. You have no right to have the rest of human society to make allowances for your choices of place of residence, economic base, etc.

    It's as simple as the old buggy whip thing. Either they adapt or their communities will die. History across this planet shows that. Time for them to accept it.
     
  9. pmichael

    pmichael Legend

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    Mar 25, 2002

    Well spare me the Heritage Foundation propaganda then.

    I'm pretty sure laziness does not explain why more people are uninsured today than a year ago. One fact beyond dispute is health care costs are easily outstripping inflation,
    and employees must pay more out of pocket to retain health insurance benefits. For instance, my out of pocket costs for health insurance subsdized by my employer increased by over 20% from last year.

    I always hear about how people don't want government to interfere in our health care system, but is it any better having officials at HMOs deciding what medical treatments they will cover? I have heard plenty of horror stories about HMOs, so our system has room for improvement.

    I would accept that there are potential drawbacks to a single payer universal health care model. But I already know what the drawback to our system is...skyrocketing costs that are forcing people to do without insurance while
    making businesses think twice about hiring permanent staff because of hefty medical insurance benefit costs.

    By the way, I am not a Kerry fan. In fact I think the choice between Bush and Kerry is essentially no choice at all.
     
  10. RichW

    RichW Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    "By the way, I am not a Kerry fan. In fact I think the choice between Bush and Kerry is essentially no choice at all."

    Hint: Supreme Court nominees.
     
  11. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Jan 11, 2004
    Yet more of your "I got mine, screw you" writing. You are so predictable. For anyone to claim there is not a serious healthcare crisis in this country is just amazing.
     
  12. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 15, 2004
    What I see here is WaydWolf replied to your somewhat off-topic post in a reasonable manner. You couldn't come back with anything to dispute his opinion, so you imply that he said there was no healthcare crisis.

    He did not say that.

    You are the predictable one, not that there's anything wrong with being predictable in and of itself. The "wrong" lies in what the actual predicted action is.
     
  13. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Jan 11, 2004
    Waydwolf writes the same tired missive in thread after thread... how he's pulled himself out of the gutter to become a successful businessman and if he can do it then everybody can, all they have to do is start selling Dishnetwork. Yes, Everybody start selling Dishnetwork now, all your troubles will be over, no more unemployment, no more healthcare crisis, no more deficits... Sell Dishnetwork, save the world!
     
  14. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    Jan 15, 2004
    I happen to like hearing about success as opposed to the "Oh, poor me" pap.

    BTW, I'm not particularly a fan of WaydWolf - he and I have butted heads more than once, but that doesn't change my opinion about what he's accomplished for himself.
     
  15. HappyGoLucky

    HappyGoLucky Banned User

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    Jan 11, 2004
    While his example may be fine for him, it is not the answer to everyone else's problems as he tries to suggest. That's my point.
     
  16. djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    Interesting article. You really want a health care system like Canada?

    http://www.canada.com/montreal/mont....html?id=bd80afe9-10c5-4117-a1d2-608f7a1cee26
    [headline]
    Surgery backlog tops 5,500 at kids' hospitals;

    One-year waits common

    'It's terrible,' doctor says; shortage of nurses and anesthetists source of delays

    [end]

    I'd heard of there being an exodus of doctors from Quebec, but no real details on the fallout from it.
     
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