Well now ("C71KW-400" Client)

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by compnurd, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think they'd lose out on the money stream that would exist if each box had a monthly fee. I think Altice does that with their box. Not sure. And calling Optimum for info has become an ordeal...but they answer quickly if you want a "new service". The Altice 1 box system starts with a main box that costs $20 a month. That box contains the modem and router. For each TV a box is needed and is called a mini. No modem and they act as wireless extenders...at $10 a box. And the CSR said you pay for each box, the first one is not without charge. So, that would elevate the equipment charges for our home to $80 a month. Do you really think D* will miss out on doing something similar to this?

    Rich
     
  2. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Satellite customers. Being able to serve satellite customers via satellite or OTT. DISH has some OTT channels on the Hopper 3. They appear as normal channels in the guide but start a stream when selected.

    (And no, that doesn't mean DISH will be throwing away their rural customers who cannot get OTT any more than DIRECTV plans to end satellite. It is an option. Satellite remains the best way to reach millions of subscribers simultaneously.)
     
  3. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The HS27 will be for satellite, not IP customers. If you don't have fast enough internet for the number of streams you want, then you should stick with satellite.
     
  4. NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    Yeah, that may be true about the contracts. But still, from a consumer perspective, as Rich points out with his sports-watching, live channel-based TV is just better with a fuller featured traditional remote control as opposed to the very simple remotes that come with retail streamers like Roku, etc. And there's a convenience for consumers not to have to pick out and buy their own box but to simply rely (as they've always done) on getting one delivered to them from the TV provider (whose responsibility it will be to replace if it craps out). Also, the fact that the box will make DTV the "main thing" in the home UI rather than just another separate app is important too.

    And besides the included hardware and different channel packages, I would imagine that the streaming version of "full DirecTV" will offer a better cloud DVR than you get with DTV Now, which only comes with 20 hrs of storage and a 30-day time limit. That can be upgraded for a fee -- to 100 hrs and 90 days, I think -- but that still falls well short of the DVR experience of the current Genies on DTV satellite. If they're serious about converting DTV satellite customers (not to mention Dish satellite and cable customers) over to the new streaming DTV, they should offer 200 hrs of storage with no time-base auto-deletions for no extra charge.
     
  5. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think comparing streaming video services (NF, AP, Hulu, etc.) to cable replacement services (Slingbox, D*Now, PSVue, etc.) is valid. The streaming video services will never have dedicated boxes or remotes. I'd expect to see dedicated boxes and remotes on cable replacement services. I also expect those boxes will carry monthly fees. BTW, I realize that AP does have the FTV devices and accompanying remotes. I don't think of them as dedicated to Amazon content.

    Rich
     
  6. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I think that's important. All the cable replacement services are like that. What they are doing is replicating the cable/satellite experience. They think everyone wants to see the weekly schedule and plan their viewing from that. I never want to go back to that paradigm. But if everybody watched TV as I do...it would be very disruptive, I think. I'd like to see the cable replacement services be wildly successful so I can keep on doing what I do.

    Rich
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Around here spectrum now has a streaming offering of their service. One of their big advertising plots is no need for a cable box. Kind of the same with directv now. They push the fact you don’t need a streaming box.

    I think they don’t want to have to produce hardware at all if they can go that route eventually.

    I mean then they can charge per stream similar
    to per box and not even have to build a box...
     
  8. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Only thing I have to compare it to is what Altice 1 has. A box that has a modem and router built in and the box can be used as a STB to replace normal cable service. It's a Cable Replacement Service, not to be confused with streaming services such as NetFlix or Amazon Prime. If I wanted the Altice 1 boxes in my home each TV set would have to have one in order to get the whole service which replicates normal cable. Naturally, they want a monthly fee of $10 per box and, IIRC, the first box costs $20. Big money stream, think D* is gonna miss out on that? I just read today on Cordcutters D* is gonna raise the monthly fee of D* Now again. Folks seem to dropping subscriptions to sat and cable companies in droves.

    Maybe you're right and the folks at D* won't nickle and dime subs to death with these new services...I'll stick with history.

    Rich
     
  9. NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    Yeah. Charging per "TV-connected device" is basically what Comcast is going to do (may already be doing?) with regard to their new Xfinity Stream app on devices like Roku, smart TVs, etc. (The Stream app has full access to whatever live channels, cloud DVR, and on-demand content that is included in whatever TV package you're subscribed to.) Right now, I think that program is still in beta but once it exits beta, their stated plan is to charge the same for each Roku as they charge for each additional Comcast-issued STB, except that the user gets a $2.50 discount for "consumer-owned hardware" (which is the same discount that they've always given for using your own CableCARD device, e.g. TiVo, in lieu of a Comcast STB). Perhaps when you spread the cost that Comcast pays to acquire, deploy and support their own STBs over the useable life of the unit, it averages out to $2.50 a month?

    I don't know if the big boys -- Comcast, Charter, AT&T, Cox, Altice -- ever want to fully get away from offering their own STBs. I think they just realize that it's in their interests to cater to different consumer tastes, and some consumers prefer to use their own hardware. (TiVo was really the only mainstream option for such consumers in the past but it never really was that popular for a number of reasons; Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV and smart TVs are playing that role now, to a far larger number of users.) So the plan is to offer that option but do so in a way that's revenue-neutral, i.e. make just as much money overall regardless of what portion of their customer base uses the provider's own STBs vs. retail devices. And, of course, the MVPDs are much happier with this scenario than with TiVo because in this new era, the MVPDs create and control their own app and its UI (as well as which devices they choose to deploy the app on), whereas on a TiVo, TiVo controlled the UI, with the MVPD playing the role of a dump pipe of linear channels.

    Speaking of Charter Spectrum, did you see the announcement that Apple made a few months back that Spectrum is going to fully support the Apple TV as a client for their regular cable TV service (not this new streaming service that you mentioned)? They'll be the first US cable company to do so. If you have both internet and cable TV service from Spectrum, the Apple TV will automatically recognize that fact when it connects to your home network -- a feature they call "zero sign-on" -- and instantly authenticate access to all of the content in your Spectrum TV package. The Spectrum TV app will be "tightly integrated" into the Apple TV. Charter is even going to be offering the Apple TV 4K directly to their customers. Charter to Pitch Apple TV 4K Box to Subs
     
  10. armchair

    armchair Hall Of Fame

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    I think the only value a local box would have is having a local DVR to avoid pitfalls of cloud DVR. None offer a live buffer that could expand to 90 minutes, if paused that long like physical DVRs do. And commercial skip can be a gotcha with recorded content in the cloud but even downloaded on-demand isn't immune from that on Directv.

    If Directv wants to call this service a premium service tiered one, I'd hope they also consider there's at least one service provider out there that betters Directv on-demand content. When I had PlayStation Vue and took advantage of adding everything I thought I'd want to watch to my DVR, on-demand and catch-up episodes added to my DVR automatically and duplicates too, where available.

    Surprisingly, many of these on-demand and catch-up episodes in my DVR, when compared to what recorded, played without commercial interruption or had limited commercials, like 1 per break, not 5 commercials! Xfinity/NBC seemed to be odd one out but I had the option to watch recording and manually skip commercials, at least.

    And no worries of filling my cloud DVR to capacity and losing recordings. PlayStation Vue support told me if that was a capacity concern, use the 9 profiles to split recordings up but I didn't see that as an issue.

    And charging extra for streams? PlayStation Vue gives you 5 if you resister a home streaming device. And you can travel with it, even a TV streaming device as long as only one location streams at any given moment. Mobile devices aren't limited to one location.

    I'm just saying, if you look at the competition, you gotta compete. Charging for extras just to pad a bill against the consumer with no true value is not competing.

    If you consider that Directv reconnections took extreme measures to bring me back to Directv for 12 months, Directv is at least eyeing PlayStation Vue as a threat. I was never successful at negotiating a monthly discount above $50 before with loyalty/retention before PlayStation Vue subscription and cancelling Directv.

    I'd prefer Directv compete directly with strategy, apples to apples, where possible. If cloud DVR, expand to same capacity and streams. If 5 minutes is best cloud DVR live buffer, expand it. Don't charge extra for simultaneous streams. If boxes are necessary, give them a purpose other than a monthly lease rate. And if they have no added value, don't require them but allow user to bring their own device without a fee.

    If not, then I can go back to PlayStation Vue next year. Hope the short term Directv discounts aren't hurting them too badly. But I was out off by the rate increases that OTT TV services added this year.

    PlayStation Vue has issues they could solve or have avoided. I think they could be more popular with a Sony name so subscribers don't feel they need a gaming station to watch TV. Not losing channels and locals could have helped too. But it likely takes subscribers resolute to take the losses and rate increases to help sustain the service. Or play the long game like Netflix and Hulu and take some losses like an investment in the future. Invest more more despite the losses of revenue to increase subscriber number.

    I feel Directv is willing to do that but don't seem to be serious about making Directv Now DVR competitive with PlayStation Vue. My wife wanted to return to Directv or keep Directv Now despite its shortcomings for channels not offered in Hulu, PlayStation Vue and YouTube TV (Viacom, I think).

    I'm not a fan of many stations holding out or suspending privilege for more money so my viewing can be limited to save money. I loved PlayStation Vue but having Directv Now along for the ride was too redundant and Directv made a short term offer to come back and pay one bill.

    I'm here but 12 months go fast. I can't help but watch the TV industry go through changes, hoping competition increases and rates don't continue to rise. It would be sad if Directv pockets potential savings of going TV over web and doesn't share that with their subscribers.

    I'm hoping for more from Directv streaming but willing to go back to PlayStation Vue if they survive the momentary rate reductions to avoid subscriber loss short term. Sony had said there's no plans to abandon streaming TV so maybe they see the long and short game playing out to some needed patience and improving their strategy.



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  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Dtv basically charges by the stream now. It’s one charge per box. But that’s really per tv when you consider RVU. They are going to give people a price for a couple streams and if they want more they will charge more. Heck DIRECTV now does that today or soon will.. plus they are going to charge for cloud DVR service and have different levels of that as well! They won’t lose anything not having a box in the house. Except the extra costs of the boxes... and the csr dealing with the boxes when something isn’t right. With an appletv you call Apple not DIRECTV for a problem with the hardware...
     
  12. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    IIRC, Altice 1 box is gonna cost $20 for the first box and $10 for every other box. So, for a house with 7 TV sets it would be $80 a month for equipment charges. I cannot see why any cable/sat provider would pass up an opportunity like this.

    Rich
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Just a thought: I keep reading articles that say it looks like PS Vue might not last much longer due to low subscriptions. Last one I read said PSV doesn't even have a million subs. I tried it, I liked it, I hope it sticks around.

    Rich
     
  14. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    We will obviously have to wait and see what happens. I hope you're right.

    Rich
     
  15. NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    Those Altice One boxes do more than just provide TV service. The main box also contains the DOCSIS modem and wifi router and I think the secondary small boxes act as wifi extenders.

    But couldn't you imagine Altice requiring the customer to take the initial $20 box for their first TV (as well as broadband service) and then offering to let you extend service to additional TVs, at a charge of $8 per TV, by using your own Apple TV, Roku or Fire TV box/stick that would use an Altice One app?

    That's what I'm getting at. It's not really about renting "boxes," it's about the number of TVs that can access the service. You're right that the MVPDs aren't going to forego that money. They'll still get your money whether a TV is served by their own box or by a box/stick that you own.
     
  16. armchair

    armchair Hall Of Fame

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    Many have speculated but publicly Sony has said they're not folding. Many of these services are losing money but goal is to increase subscribers. Sony needs to add numbers to justify their business so I can understand the speculation.

    When I was with PlayStation Vue and noting major functional differences between Roku and Apple TV device ability to skip commercials in various content in my DVR (note that adding a series to DVR will add all the previous available on-demand and catch-up episodes to DVR series folder to catch-up, if needed). Support was telling me that Roku was behind on updates, the better result is likely the intent because PlayStation Vue wants to continually improve the customer experience.

    In some ways, even Directv doesn't stack up to PlayStation Vue. Most of the popular channels are in the lowest plan and all plans include virtually unlimited DVR with 9 profiles and 5 home simultaneous streams for TV devices. No delete recording button in PSV? That wasn't an issue with folder queuing latest recording at open but recordings don't last but 28 days. That could be an issue.

    Little to no advertising, PlayStation Vue must rely on customers to get the word out about the service. There is an annual Days of PlayStation promos to take advantage of and the Access plan users may get bumped up a tier temporarily to try it for free. I think many would-be subscribers are still confused with the use of PlayStation in the name, thinking it's for game console only.

    It's a different experience for sure. They need a slogan. "TV that makes cents" wouldn't do the DVR or included services at no added cost justice but maybe that works? Use it. With exception of a few missing channels and live buffer limited to just under 5 minutes, it's a premium service. Almost but a lot of potential, IMO. I miss it some but the wife wouldn't use it for missing channels; sadly, there's that flip side. Maybe it's more like TV done Sony's way; try it, Mikey likes it.

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  17. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Yup, that's what I've been told. I told the CSR I have one of their modems and didn't think the box's router would be any better than my Netgear Nighthawk setup and he said I could keep my present Wifi setup. I've had a couple Optimum routers, thought they were rather cruel jokes.

    I didn't go any further with the CSR. I have no interest in a cable replacement service. Not sure what my D* monthly bill will be now. Might be as low as ~ $50 a month. I'm not gonna replace D* with something else similar to it.

    Rich
     
  18. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    Me! I seriously thought PlayStation Vue required a PlayStation. I thought that was one of their perks or selling points to choose PlayStation over Xbox. Low cost TV.

    They really need to change the name.
     
  19. NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    You probably also know that Altice has begun converting their network in the greater NYC region from traditional cable (hybrid fiber/coax) over to full fiber-to-the-home (FTTH). When homes get changed over, an ONT will be installed (like Verizon FiOS) and users will get a new in-home gateway that acts as a wireless router for all internet and TV service, which will switch from the current QAM format over to IPTV. So I would guess that the larger Altice One boxes (the ones with DOCSIS modems built-in) won't be deployed in FTTH homes. I guess each TV will just get the smaller Altice One Mini box, or something similar, acting as both TV STB and wifi mesh router. Altice has said they won't be using MoCA or any other coax-based in-home distribution system for TV since faults in such systems currently account for a large percentage of their service calls. Sounds like their IPTV service will be fully routed through the home via wifi. From what I can gather, I predict that their TV service will basically look and work the same via IPTV as it does now via QAM except that DVR service will probably be totally cloud-based. And, of course, TiVos will no longer be compatible.
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    What else can Sony do but deny it's gonna drop PSV? They could rename it and get rid of the confusion, I'd think that would make folks more likely to try the service. Sony does some really strange things, look at how they botched the Betamax recorders.

    Rich
     

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