What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Rich, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'm not sure what I went thru had anything to do with the problems others are seeing. I could not use the HR. Nothing I did made it any better. Changed batteries, changed remotes, finally put another HR in its place and haven't seen the problem since. Don't know what else I could have done. The next night, Monday, I watched the Giants-49ers game. I beat a remote up during a football game and I saw no problems with the remote.

    Rich
     
  2. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    My HR24-200 is terrible with lag. Even did the clearmybox search and multiple reboots to clean out all guide data. Its so terrible I had my inlaws use the cable box (Pace RNG110) when they were here a few weeks ago and stayed in that room.

    I have a Samsung 860 Pro 256GB SSD I'm going to try this weekend as a test (its borrowed, not mine). If it substantially makes the experience better, I'll consider a 500GB for this. Most recording is done on our HR44-700, so capacity isn't as high on the list (I remember having a 160GB DVR from the cable company in 2008).

    For the HR44 I would consider a 2TB drive if the price comes down a bit. It already has a 1TB drive so I would want to upgrade the capacity if I was spending any money on it.
     
  3. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    Ok I had the Samsung 860 Pro 256 GB installed for about 4 hours. It appears most of the high resolution logos and graphics downloaded, as well as on demand assets. It’s like night and day. This HR24-200 feels like new. It’s on par, if not better than a C61 client, which is remarkable for an 8+ year old machine. Just like a computer, the biggest bang for the buck, most impactful and felt upgrade was an SSD. Even the start over feature works (rarely ever worked before). Menus move fast and I can even have scrolling effects on (needed to turn that off before).

    I can’t imagine what an SSD does on a newer machine like a genie. I’m sure it makes a huge impact on client performance as well, assuming all the additional read and writes from various tuners. I really would like to save up for a 2TB drive for the HR44. This really makes it operate almost as fast as cable, and I’m sure the Genie with an SSD is pretty darn close to the quick channel changes of cable.

    The only thing that was annoying was setting up favorites again. Choosing “channels I get” as a starting point added in way too many channels I don’t get... but I got it all sorted out. If I upgrade the HR44, I would install the new drive to allow the system to format it, then put both old and new drives in a PC and boot from a Linux live CD that has xfs tools to copy the data from the source drive to the new larger drive.
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    You can't imagine and I don't have the words to describe how well my 44 works now. Keep watching the 24 and you will see how rare it is to see any problems. Problems we thought we'd have to live with. Rain fade you can't get away from. I haven't seen any pixies that weren't caused by weather since I put the SSDs in. The audio drops have stopped. I've always had problems with YES and their broadcasts. Had no problems after I made the change. Watching YES is like watching a program on NF using an ATV box...no issues at all as a rule.

    Consider what I've said about the size of the SSDs and how long they last. The larger the drive, the longer it should last. I would not put anything smaller than a 1TB SSD in/on an HR. I made the mistake, I bought a 500GB SSD. I learned.

    Rich
     
  5. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    Well for this test, the 256GB in the HR24, I loaded it with 9 hours and 8 minutes of HD recordings and its at 81% free space. Trick play in these recordings are instant. I re-entered keyword 30SKIP and its like the instant you push the button its playing the video 30 seconds away. What feels faster is when you change channels, there is always some kind of delay in processing (older CPU) but its like the video appears much faster than it ever has on an HR24.

    In my case this HR24 is mostly for spare room viewing and an occasional recording if the tuners are tied up on the HR44. Space is not a concern, I could live with 256GB, but you do make a point about longevity. It isn't used much, so there is a pro, but prices keep coming down so one day it will be trivial to put a larger drive in these DVR's. Especially since the HR24 is now over 8 years old, how many more years do I expect to get out of it? It's not on its original drive as it was (I had a 250GB laptop drive in there to get me by for the last year and a half - Seagate Momentus 5400.6). Right now the HR24 System Info says the internal temp is 86 degrees F.

    I will watch the 2TB SSD prices and when comfortable with it, upgrade the HR44.
     
  6. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I don't think how much an HR is actually used makes a lot of difference. When I was using Seagate Barracudas in my HRs they were constantly "chattering". Whether they were being used or not. From what I've read and heard, the chattering is the drive reading and writing. When I had the Seagates I called them and asked what I could do about what I called chattering. I was told it wasn't chattering, it was "searching". Not much can be done according to them. The Cudas were all 7200RPM drives, I switched to WD 5400RPM drives and the chattering went away for the most part. I have the impression the drives are always "searching". And that's what eventually kills them.

    I did load up the 500GB SSD for about a week. Had it totally full and saw no problems. Do that to a 24 and all you'll have is problems. I almost pulled the trigger on the 1TB Samsung drive this morning. Down to $124 but I'm gonna wait til it gets to $100. I'll put the 500 on a refurb 24-500 I just got and let that run. See what happens.

    Rich
     
  7. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Have you taken that 500 GB drive out and hooked it to a PC to run SMART diagnostics on it to see how much its wear indicator shows? I still think you will not have a problem with drive failure on the 500 GB size during the life of that 24.
     
  8. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    The Crucial MX500 2TB drive is on sale for $208 at Amazon today. Tempting but still a bit of money to spend.

    The datasheet for that line of drives shows this endurance:

    Endurance 250GB drive: 100TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 54GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 42.99

    500GB drive: 180TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 98GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 64.99

    1TB drive: 360TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 197GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 139.99

    2TB drive: 700TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 383GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 208.99
     
  9. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    The 500GB SSD is on it's second 24. The first 24 expired because it would not receive remote commands. I don't think the SSD caused that. Have I put the SSD on a computer and run the SMART diagnosis? No.

    Rich
     
  10. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    That's about what I paid for the 1TB Samsung SSD 3 months ago. Sure would be nice to see the 2TB drive drop like the 1TB did. Have patience.

    Rich
     
  11. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I can't remember now if we established that the HR24 is always recording to both tuners 24x7 or not. If it does, that's about 50 TB per year worst case, and given that the measured endurance of most drives is 2-3x the rated spec even that 250 GB drive would likely outlive the HR24 you put it in.
     
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  12. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    Wow your right. I found a mbps over time calculator online. Assuming high like 18mbps, it would take 35 weeks to approach 50TB. and the smallest drive is saying 54TB PER DAY. Yeah DAY.

    Lets say its an HR44/54 and all 6 tuners are recording 9mbps, so thats 54mbps. It would take 11.6803 weeks to get to 50TB, or 12.6147 weeks to approach the 54TB per DAY limit that Crucial is saying. 54TB times 5 years is 98604 TB written. These things are getting pretty good. I wouldn't trust a spinning disk that long.
     
  13. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Your math is off by three orders of magnitude here, those per day limits are in GB not TB! And the Genie has five tuners not six (and I'm almost positive they aren't all recording 24x7 like a Tivo) and Directv's HD channels average more like 6.5 - 8 Mbps not 9.
     
  14. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I paid about the same price for the 1TB drive only 3 months ago. I should have waited. Seems obvious now, but at the time...

    How long would you trust an HDD? I think 5 years is way too long. Based on what I've experienced, we should have been swapping them out long before 5 years. They don't die, they keep running and the performance gets worse and worse. You stick an SSD in an HR and you're gonna see a difference immediately. Not only in speed but the audio drops and pixelations are practically nonexistent. Nothing we can do about rain fade but aside from that, I see no picture breakups on any channel. It's like watching a NF stream on an Apple TV. Very few problems.

    Rich
     
  15. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    I thought I read TB not GB per day in Crucial’s data sheet. Though I checked a Samsung 860 pro warranty and it’s guaranteed on TBW over the life of the drive.

    [​IMG]

    I guess one would have to do the math on how long does it take for an HR24 or HR44/54 to write one TB.

    But I do suspect it’s more likely a power supply or fan will fail before an SSD drive. I’ve lost many mechanical drives over the years in PC’s, servers and even the HR24. Anything with moving mechanical parts are just bound to fail, especially with tight tolerances in modern hard drives and the heat/ cool cycle some systems experience that are not powered on 24/7.

    In my experience I’ve seen more Seagate drives fail, followed by HGST and then finally Western Digital. I’ve seen drives in storage arrays go by big name companies like Dell/EMC, and all the way down to a family or friend reaching out to me about their personal laptop or computer.
     
  16. cypherx

    cypherx Hall Of Fame

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    I’m not sure how to calculate how long it takes an HR to write 1 TB. I’ve googled and some think 1TB is equal to 500 hours of recorded mpeg4 HD, but I’m not sure how accurate that is.

    I found this website which is more for security camera DVR’s but here are the parameters I used for 365 days.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Unless someone has an SSD that keeps a running total of the amount of data written to it that's accessible via SMART, the only way would be to stick an SSD into a DVR for at least six months, then connect it to a PC to read the SMART data and look at the wear/lifetime indication.

    Just to clarify, while the SSD isn't mechanical the fact NAND flash "wears out" is a physical process just like the wear on the bearings in a hard drive or fan. However, a hard drive fails due to the electronics in the controller or the read/write head failing more often than mechanical issues and obviously SSDs have electronics (far more complex than a hard drive's) in their controller so an SSD could die in a few months just like a hard drive can. Not all failures will wait years until the flash cells wear out and can no longer be erased.
     
  18. am3211

    am3211 AllStar

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    I just plowed through this whole thread and have decided to make this upgrade after the rave reviews of everyone's results. There are a lot of references to different docking stations and different brands of SSD drives. I currently have two Thermaltake docking stations and have been very pleased with there performance but they are not compatible with SSD drives.

    What would be the current recommendation for a one TB SSD and a compatible docking station?
     
  19. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'm still using my Thermaltake docks. There are a few posts in this thread about available docks. Just make sure you see the eSATA port on the dock. Just like the port on the back of your docks. The SSDs I use seem to be one of the more popular drives at this moment. All that info is in posts on this thread.

    Rich
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    That's the accepted estimate, varies by content.

    Rich
     

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