What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Rich, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Apr 7, 2019 #341 of 685
    Rich

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    Perhaps you could explain what the article meant in terms of how long we can rely on the SSDs in a way that an ordinary mortal can understand?

    Rich
     
  2. Apr 7, 2019 #342 of 685
    jimmie57

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    I did not see a time ( possibly some of the terminology that I do not know what it means ). The key thing I read was that the more stored in one ? spec / space, the less reliable it gets.
    The newer ones are doing that tech in order to put more memory in smaller spaces to increase volume.
    For that reason the Evo is better than the Qvo.
    The Evo is also faster than the Qvo.
     
  3. Apr 7, 2019 #343 of 685
    jimmie57

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    This is about their life ( P/E Cycles )
    P/E cycle. A solid-state-storage program-erase cycle is a sequence of events in which data is written to solid-state NAND flash memory cell (such as the type found in a so-called flash or thumb drive), then erased, and then rewritten. Program-erase (PE) cycles can serve as a criterion for quantifying the endurance of a flash storage device.
     
  4. Apr 7, 2019 #344 of 685
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    TLC lasts a lot longer than 1000 cycles - those figures must be from before they started doing 3D NAND, which get density by building stacks of cells rather than by making cells smaller. They made the cells a lot bigger to avoid the short lifetimes of TLC and made QLC feasible - even it lasts for several thousand P/E cycles using 3D NAND.
     
  5. Apr 7, 2019 #345 of 685
    jimmie57

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    Posted on November 07, 2018 at 08:12 AM
    Update: This post was originally published on 11 August 2017. It has since been updated to reflect the advances in QLC technology in the market.
     
  6. Apr 7, 2019 #346 of 685
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Elsewhere it says Micron reports 1000 P/E cycles for QLC now. I've seen higher figures elsewhere, but that may be different by manufacturer.
     
  7. Apr 7, 2019 #347 of 685
    SledgeHammer

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    Samsung rates their drives in TBW (terabytes written). For the drive you have, it's 360TB. That's 360,000,000MB. The best case scenario for the drive is sequential writes @ 520MB/s.

    If you do the math, it comes out to about 192 hours. That sounds low, because it is. That's a measly 8 days. In the real world in a DVR, you aren't going to be writing to the drive @ 520MB/s 24x7 and you aren't going to be doing sequential writes.

    The random write speeds from the real world benchmarks seem to be closer to 128MB/s, so now you are at least up to 32 days of constant, non stop writing at all the speed the drive can muster.

    You'd really have to know the writing pattern of the DVR to guess how long the SSD is going to last. At the end of the day its only rated for 360TB.

    Compare that to mechanical drives that are generally rated for 1M hours = 41,666 days.

    If you really wanted to get a very accurate number, I'd attach the SSD to a PC and let the Samsung Magician report its TBW. Then put it back in the DVR and let it run for a week and get the new TBW number. Then you'll know how many TBs/week you are writing to it. Assuming of course that SM will be able to pull the number off a DirecTV drive ;).
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  8. Apr 7, 2019 #348 of 685
    slice1900

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    Directv's HD channels average about 6.5 Mbps, so if you put the drive in an HR24 and it is recording both tuners 24x7, that's 13 Mbps - or about seven years til it hits 360 TBW.

    FWIW, Storage Report did some long term testing of SSDs a couple years and found most easily outlived their TBW rating. Some by 2-3x. There is always the possibility of some type of early failure of course, but that's true with mechanical hard drives as well. There's no reason to be concerned about wearing out a modern SSD in a DVR, the DVR (especially something that's already quite old like an HR24) is more likely to fail first. Or for its owner to leave Directv satellite first.
     
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  9. Apr 7, 2019 #349 of 685
    Rich

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    I really dislike learning curves, but I'm beginning to get it.

    Rich
     
  10. Apr 7, 2019 #350 of 685
    SledgeHammer

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    Of course its going to last longer then the 32 days the math gives us :). Regardless, the drive is being written to and read 24/7 regardless of if you are recording or not. DLB, guide data, house keeping, background tasks, etc. Obviously, the video is the 99% chunk.

    If it takes 30 seconds to move the selection bar ONE grid on the guide, then the drive is way busy. Windows has a lot more background tasks going on, and it works with SATA3 drives just fine. It certainly doesn't get hung up like the HR24 does.

    That's why I suggested Rich take the TBW reading for a week to find out how much its actually writing from all the going ons from his specific usage pattern.
     
  11. Apr 8, 2019 #351 of 685
    Geekzilla

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    Earlier in this thread I reported my actual SSD usage #'s from an HR24. Average 100GB/day aka 0.1TB/day. That means 36.5TB per year so it should last about 10 years if your drive rated for 360TBW.
     
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  12. codespy

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    Rich- Two months later, and my QVO's are working flawless and very snappy on my HR24's. My other HR24's have regular HD's that are lagging compared to the QVO's.

    Thanks for getting me addicted. At least this time, it is a good habit, not a bad one. :)
     
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  13. Rich

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    I'm seeing problems with the 24-100 in our living room. That has a Blue WD 1TB drive in it and I did everything I could think of to it about a year ago to get it back to where it was when it was new. What I did worked but it's getting slow again and nothing helps. Since I can't seem to give up D* I'm thinking about sticking a 2TB SSD on that. My wife uses that DVR and she keeps filling up the HDD which doesn't help. The SSD should take care of those problems. But I can't find a 2TB for sale under $200. Seen any?

    I'm also having a problem has to be caused by the SSDs. I'm seeing very noticeable pauses in remote commands when I access the recordings from another HR. When I access recordings on the HR that did the recording I see no pauses. Doesn't matter much when watching something other than sports but it's a bit of a PITA when watching sports. Have you seen anything similar? I have absolutely no idea why this is happening, the only thing that has changed on my system is the SSDs. Nothing I've done mitigates this problem. I've had MRV from the gitgo, this has never happened.

    Rich
     
  14. Rich

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  15. Jun 7, 2019 #356 of 685
    Rich

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    I did receive the WD 2TB SSD a few days ago. Installed it yesterday in a 24-100 that was getting slow and I was kinda surprised that it booted up as quickly as it did. Seems like a good drive. I recorded an afternoon ballgame and watched it. The 24-100 is working like it was brand new. Be interesting to see how it holds up with my wife using it. I know she will fill it up and I want to see what happens with a near full 2TB SSD. I know what happened with a full 500 GB SSD in another HR...nothing much.

    Rich
     
  16. Jun 7, 2019 #357 of 685
    Rich

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    So, am I the only one using SSDs that's seeing this?

    Rich
     
  17. Jun 7, 2019 #358 of 685
    Geekzilla

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    Are you able to hook the SSD to a PC and get its' usage #'s and error reports? I like using Hard Disk Sentinel. If you try this, pay particular attention to the Performance and Health numbers when you first try it vs after a reboot or having it hooked to a pc for a while. On mine I thought one of those #'s was in the 70's when I first hooked up the drive and when I checked again it risen to 98%. My theory was the PC did some SSD housekeeping that the HR-24 doesn't do. I've been waiting for some signs of slowdown here to test the theory and better document the results, but thankfully everything is working swimmingly here.
     
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  18. Jun 7, 2019 #359 of 685
    242424

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    I bought a dock, formatted a 500GB 2.5" drive I had just to test. Plugged it in to the esata, restarted and all it does is beep. Receiver never sees it. I assume I'm not doing something right?
     
  19. Jun 7, 2019 #360 of 685
    codespy

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    The 5 SSD drives I’ve put in this spring to my external dock, I never formatted them before installing. I install them right out of the box, and the HD-DVR automatically formatted them once they started booting up.

    I typically cut power to DVR, then turned on dock, and after about 5-10 seconds, powered up DVR, just to make sure it read the external before the internal. Not sure if that would help your situation. I’m using TT esata docks, and Samsung SS drives.
     
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