What happens when I add 2 HR24s and an Hr44 (9 tuners) to a SWM8?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Sherlocc, Aug 18, 2015.

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  1. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    If an SWM31 ever does happen to show up, it is possible it would be for business/commercial/MDU accounts only and you may not be able to procure one for a residential account.
     
  2. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Assuming they introduce a SWM 22 LNB I'm not sure why anyone would want a SWM31 for their home. Not too many people need more than 22 tuners... That said, like the SWM32 today they might not support it for residential use, but I don't see what would stop someone from buying it and using it at home if they really really wanted to.
     
  3. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    The price will def stop lots of folks from buying.
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    If you need 32 tuners you have so many boxes that the one time cost of a swim32 isn't a consideration. Granted we all know you are generally better with twin swim16s anyway.
     
  5. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    The issue with that is SWM16s can be had "off the truck" SWM32 not so much
     
  6. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that's really the reason, it's just there wasn't much point to the SWM32 so its production volume is likely very low. Even MDUs that were the target market often use SWM8/SWM16s with integration products from Sonora that end up costing much less than the SWM32. It isn't clear what the production volumes for a SWM31 would be, but if you have a SWM 22 LNB available a SWM31 would almost never be used in residential or small/medium business/commercial. It is doubtful that the MDU new construction and upgrade volumes would be high enough to keep its pricing from looking like that of the SWM32.

    Even if there was a SWM31 available for $100 if I needed to change my system I think I'd have the old 72.5* dish that is languishing on my roof replaced with another Slimline, and go with two SWM 22 LNBs. Better redundancy, and everything is a lot simpler once I dump the PL, amp, splitters and SWMs.
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    So why not a swim 31 lnb? Why 22?
     
  8. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    My comment was for residential folks. You can't compare a SWM31 to a SWM32. The SWM31 all come with a fix that the SWM32 does not have and that is more tuners per single cable run. Residential folks needing more than 16 tuners are not going to run and get a SWM31 if is valued the same as the SWM32 ($500) when SWM16s can be had at a fraction of that cost
     
  9. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    The SWM 16 is partitioned so that no more than eight per coax can be assigned. That is the problem I have at my condo that started this thread.

    The SWM 31 is supposedly non partitioned, which is the key. Thirty one tuners per single coax, which opens up lots of opportunities for multi resident dwellings.

    Jack
     
  10. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    According to what I heard, the SWM31 is 15 tuners per output (2 outputs) plus a guide data channel
     
  11. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    Fifteen would certainly be a definite improvement, but my source specifically said non-portioned. Clearly, he could be wrong, and I have no first hand or technical understanding of the rumored product.

    Jack
     
  12. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    In order to do the additional filtering needed to fit 32 channels in the stack with 36.02 MHz center spacing, the computational requirements go up a fair bit. Thus the cost would be higher compared to the already existing and in mass production 24 channel chips that would be used in a SWM 22 LNB. We're not talking about a huge difference assuming equal production volumes, but a 5 or 10 dollar difference (for example) adds up quickly when you're talking about installing millions of LNBs a year. The number of customers who need more than 22 but no more than 31 tuners is pretty tiny, so that extra expense doesn't do them much good.

    Its issues like this why I think dropping SWM and outputting DECA would make a lot of sense. You don't have to do any of that heavy duty filtering, so those DSP resources can be used for demodulation instead. Certainly at the point where you are filtering to this degree, outputting 32 streams via DECA is going to be easier.

    One other thought I had - maybe a SWM31 isn't restricted to the range 950-2150 MHz. There's no reason it can't go lower, since newer tuners can use the whole range from 250-2150 MHz (at least I'm sure the HR54 can, I don't know about HR34/44 but if someone knows what chip they use its specs can be looked up) So the SWM31 could use the same 51.03 MHz DSWM spacing, and just add channels in the 250-950 MHz range. Leaving the DECA range untouched, there's room for 9 additional channels, 22 + 9 = 31. If they went that way then yes, there's no reason you wouldn't do a SWM 31 LNB since the cost would be so similar to a SWM 22 LNB and the economies of scale would help somewhat with the price of a SWM 31 switch.
     
  13. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    One more question guys:

    Just so I understand:
    1. My installation will have one coax in, so a limit of eight tuners..
    2. I will have eight tuners accounted for - five on the HR44, one on an HR24, and two more on another HR24.
    3. I will have maybe four C41 or C51 non wireless clients for a total of twelve connections through appropriate diplexors - note not wireless.
    4. I am aware that only three clients can be active simultaneously - I read that to mean powered on.

    My question is : Do the extra four coax connections for the clients count against the tuner limit of eight? Am I thus forced to get wireless clients instead?

    I assume that the system is smart enough not to count the client coax connections against the limit of eight tuners, but I need corroboration of this before I commit.

    Thank you for all your help,

    Jack
     
  14. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Clients do not count against tuners ever. The swim system has 8 tuners and there's only 8tuners in your purposes system that would ever ask for a tuner so you are good.

    The clients get their "tuners" from the main genie.

    Careful it's not diplexiers. Those are quite different. You need green labeled DIRECTV splitters. Stack as few as possible though. Less splitters and splitting the better.

    And you can actually turn on all the clients at once but only three will ever allow you a picture of any kind at a time.

    Also realize that the genie can only feed three other devices at one time. Either all genie minis or a combination of minis and HR24. So if you are watching something on both HR24 that was recorded on the genie then you will only be able to get a signal on one mini while that is happening. Should be easy to avoid though for you.
     
  15. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    inkahauts:

    Thank you for your response.

    I mis-spoke when I said diplexors. I have 4 and 8 way SWM splitters - MSPLIT4R1-02 and MSPLIT8R1-02 part numbers..

    I understood where the physical tuners were, but wanted to ensure that the number of devices connected did not count somehow against the limit of eight tuners.
    Good point about the limit of three active accesses to the Genie. It isn't just three clients, it could be three HR24s for that matter. Never thought about that before.

    So if I have this correct now: I can have five non wireless C41 clients if I wish, a one tuner HR24, a two tuner HR24, a five tuner HR44 all physically lashed together (no wireless) through SWM splitters to the single DirecTV feed coax coming from the Condo infrastructure. The limitation being that a max of three tuners can be in use by the clients at any time, the actual number of tuners possible being reduced by any HR24s that are watching a whole home based recording from the HR44.

    I hope I have that right. Great input, If I am correct, then I now know what I have to do.

    One other question. Is it possible to bring up a coax connected HR24 that has a load of movies on its HDD, but with no tuners allocated so that the movies are "online" for whole home use but none of its tuners count against the max of eight?

    Jack
     
  16. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    Bolded part is correct. Clients ONLY take tuners when watching LIVE TV. When a client is watching the playlist, it doe NOT use any tuners. The Genie can share with up to 3 devices, those devices being clients, receivers, DVRs, or GenieGo. So if 3 DVRs are watching the playlist from the Genie, the clients are useless until one or more DVR disconnects.

    There is no way to connect a receiver or DVR to the DIRECTV system without taking any tuners.
     
  17. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    PEDS48:

    This is what you said: "So if 3 DVRs are watching the playlist from the Genie, the clients are useless until one or more DVR disconnects."

    This is what I said : "The limitation being that a max of three tuners can be in use by the clients at any time, the actual number of tuners possible being reduced by any HR24s that are watching a whole home based recording from the HR44. "

    I believe that we said the same thing, only your statement is much clearer.

    "There is no way to connect a receiver or DVR to the DIRECTV system without taking any tuners."

    I am not surprised, but gave it a try anyway.

    Thanks,

    JacK
     
  18. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Actually that's not really true. ;)

    If you do not connect a coax to it at all but do connect it's Ethernet port to your router and boot it to use the Ethernet port and not built in deca you should be able to watch movies on it and on other machines via Whole Home Service. It won't take tuners because it's not connected via coax.
     
  19. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    the difference being the word "tuners". HDDVRs don't take any tuners but they do take a streaming spot. So with a genie and 3 clients all on at the same time, you can only record one more show. With a genie and 3 DVRs, with the DVRs pulling the playlist, the genie can still record 5 shows, or watch one live and record 4. Etc


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Sherlocc

    Sherlocc Cool Member

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    Hi guys:

    I have successfully enabled my SWM8 based connection to the condo's DirecTV dish. Tuner requirement has been reduced from fifteen down to eight by installing three minis to bypass three DVRs and reduced one other DVR down to one tuner. I can switch back and forth from my Dish to the condo system in a matter of seconds by switching just two cables in my closet hub.

    I had one discovery. Whole Home wasn't working properly with the condo system until I discovered that there seems to be a limit of six streaming paths.on the SWM8 system. And I do not mean tuners or active minis. Just assigned devices. I had three DVRs sharing in whole home, and four minis and my HR24 in the master bedroom wasn't recognized - although it was when I went back to my SWM16 based dish system. I removed one of the DVRs from sharing on the SWM8 based system, and everything works fine now.

    So a SWM8 based system can only have a max of six assigned devices in a combination of paired minis or shared DVRs? And this has nothing to do with active minis or physical tuners.

    Anyway, that was my only issue. My Dish will have to come done probably early October, so I have a month to play with all this.

    Thanks again for all your help.

    Best Regards,

    Jack
     

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