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What's up with the WD EVDS drives?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Rich, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. Nov 6, 2010 #1 of 37
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    All of a sudden, I've been seeing posts stating that folks are having problems with WD EVDS drives. Especially when used with 24s. I have several EVDS 2TB drives, some internally in 20-700s and two externally on a 24-500 and a 24-200. The 20-700s using the EVDS drives are solid and can be "normally" used. But the 24-500 is another matter.

    I got a 24-500 with my DECA install and immediately put a Thermaltake docking station with a WD20EVDS drive in it on the 500. For the first few weeks I had no problems. Then I started playing with my DECA system in a manner that made restarting the HRs necessary. I used the Menu Restart function to do this.

    I've never had a problem using Menu Restart on my 20-700s with an external drive attached and I never gave it a thought when I restarted my 500 in the same manner. This happened a lot, because I found a bad DECA module and had to reset all the HRs several times. Long story short, I reset the 500 quite a few times using the Menu Restart. It came back each time correctly, or so it seemed. The Local Playlist came up correctly each time and I thought the 500 was doing well with the 2TB HDD on it.

    Then a couple NRs hit and all my HRs came back online correctly. I thought.

    I acquired a 24-200 and immediately put a TT on it with a WD20EVDS HDD. No problem.

    Then the 500 started going berserk. I would watch it for several hours a day, playing programming that was recorded on the external drive and used the MRV freely with it. Woke up in the morning and kept seeing the power light of the 500 brightly shining. I keep the front panels of the 24s dimmed and the first time it happened I couldn't figure out why only the power light came on.

    This happened several times and I began to suspect something was amiss. Turned it on one day and the Menu popped up. Then the Playlist came up. Cleared them and the Menu popped up again. Cleared that and the Playlist popped up. OK, now I knew something was wrong. Unplugged both the 500 and the TT overnight. That usually clears things up. Didn't work.

    No matter what I did the Menu and Playlist kept popping up. If I hit the Play button the Playlist or Menu popped up.

    Started a thread about what was happening and tried all the suggestions I received. No help.

    Began to think it might be the cabling. Had a 20-700 in the location the 500 was in before I got the 500 and the 20-700 worked correctly, but they will work on just about any signal, so I moved the 500 to another location that is fed by a different SWM. Seemed to work correctly there and moved the 20-700 back to it's original spot and that worked correctly.

    A couple days later, my son and I were watching a show on my BD player and the Power light of the 500 came on. My son asked me why the 500 would come out of Standby without any command to do so. Switched from the BD player to the 500 and told him to sit back and watch the show.

    As soon as I switched to the 500, the menu was up and the Playlist was in the background. My son said, "How did you do that?" He thought I had a remote hidden and that I was playing a trick on him. The remote was sitting on a coffee table between us. From that point on, as soon as I cleared the Menu and Playlist they would both come back up immediately. Nothing helped.

    I couldn't believe that either the TT or the EVDS was causing this to happen and shut them down, rebooted and was on the stock internal drive. The next morning the Power light was on and the whole thing started all over again.

    By now, I'd eliminated the SWMs, the cabling, the EVDS and the TT as the problems. Had to be the 500 itself. Called the PP and was told a CMG agent would call me.

    Ben called me shortly thereafter and we talked about all that I had done. At first he wanted to start troubleshooting over the phone, but he quickly saw that I had isolated the problem to the 24 and sent me another one.

    I gave this problem a great deal of thought and the only thing that made sense to me was that by restarting the 500 as I would a 20-700 I had driven the 500 bonkers. I've had a lot of HDDs go south during my years of playing with DVRs and none did what that 500 did.

    Since all the above happened, I got a replacement 500, put the TT and EVDS drive on it and have not used the Menu Restart at all. If I need to restart or reboot the 500 or 200 I now use the proper way to restart or reboot an HR with and external attached and have no problems with either 24.

    This solution has resulted in two 24s using TTs and WD20EVDS HDDs running perfectly. I also use the proper method to reboot them after an NR comes down. That method is this: Turn off the TT's Power switch and unplug the 24. Wait at least 30 seconds and turn the Power switch to ON on the TT and wait a bit for it to spin up. Then plug in the 24 and let it reboot. Works every time and I've had no problems since. With the latest NR, 0x418, they both are stable and steady performers.

    My conclusion: The 24s CANNOT be treated as if they were 20-700s. They seem to be much more sensitive than 20-700s. Bluntly put, I destroyed the first 500!

    The 24s can work very well with the EVDS series of HDDs if you treat them properly. I made a big mistake with my first 500 and I urge you all not to make the same mistakes. And not to give up on the EVDS HDDs, there's nothing wrong with them. My replacement 500 is running perfectly with the SAME 2TB EVDS HDD in the SAME TT docking station. It was NOT the HDD it was my mishandling of the 500 that caused the problems.

    Rich
     
  2. Nov 6, 2010 #2 of 37
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    According a description of all your steps, the issue came after FW update(s). I would dig in that direction ...

    As to wait 30 min or overnight doing cold reboot, it is overkill - 2 or 5 min max enough to drain out an energy accumulated in all capacitors and bring to initial state all registers inside chips and whole DVR. I know the interval from first hand, did a lot of measures in EElab during tests on similar equipment.
     
  3. Nov 6, 2010 #3 of 37
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    No, I know what I did wrong and it's got nothing to do with NRs.

    I'll agree with that statement, but it's just so easy to unplug them and go to sleep and wake up the next morning and plug them in.

    Rich
     
  4. Nov 6, 2010 #4 of 37
    hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that it is operator error or your fault at all. There is no reason in the world that you should have to power down the docking station/drive for a menu restart, absolutely none. That is very poor design, or in this case, it is a major bug.

    Yes, you have found a work-around, and that is commendable. However to redefine a work-around as somehow the responsibility of the user is ludicrous. Your information is important and may save the sat box. I'm not disputing either the value or importance of your post. But don't assign responsibility for this mess to the user...it's D*'s. (assuming your description of events and causality are correct).

    I do take issue with the implication that the HR24-500 is behaving as it should and this silly reboot procedure should be accepted as "normal". None of the other 24's require it, (and even if they did, it's still a bug), and as you noted, the problem doesn't show up with the HR20-700.

    This is a major bug that D* needs to fix, and fix right away (after all, it is allegedly destroying equipment)

    ...and you did not destroy your 500, D* did with this major bug.
     
  5. Nov 6, 2010 #5 of 37
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    But with all the others, originally, we did have to reboot (with an external drive) both the HR and the externals. Suddenly, we were able to use the Menu Restart and not worry so much about reboots after NRs came down. Seems as if we went back to square one for some reason. And I think we have to accept the 24s, at least the 500s, as they are, no matter how much we, rightly, blame D* for this. Perhaps a 200 or 100 wouldn't act as the 500 did. I'm not about to test that idea.

    I did all that I did to that 500 out of ignorance. The idea that they wouldn't work as my 20-700s do never crossed my mind. Now I know better, to repeat my mistakes would be sheer stupidity. I agree that folks at D* screwed up when they did not make the 500s as robust as the 20-700s, but, again, the 20-700s were terrible for a couple years.

    Till they fix the problem, if they do, anyone with a 500 would be well advised not to take a chance and follow the procedure for rebooting or restarting.

    They don't have to fix it. They don't "support" the external function. And I hope they never do.

    Nice of you to say that, but even without any foreknowledge of what was gonna happen, I could have been more careful. I'm aware of how new the 500s are and I think I'd still have it had I followed the same procedures that I've been writing about for several years.

    But, Hasan, I gotta tell you, I wish everyone could have seen what that 500 did. I've never seen a DVR do anything remotely like it did. And kept doing. It was almost comical. My son was laughing like crazy at it. I'm laughing as I write this. And how could I really criticize D*, they gave me the 500 without cost and replaced it without cost and without a hassle. I kinda got a kick out of the whole experience. :lol:

    Rich
     
  6. Nov 6, 2010 #6 of 37
    David MacLeod

    David MacLeod New Member

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    maybe e-sata not being supported is a factor.......
     
  7. Nov 7, 2010 #7 of 37
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Which is what I said in my last post. But that lets us use whatever we want and I can certainly live with that. If the 24s have to be used slightly differently than the 20-700s, at least we know that now and can deal with it properly. It's been over four years now and they still don't support the eSATA function and I don't think they ever will. And that leave us with a world of HDDs and external devices to play with. A good thing.

    Rich
     
  8. Nov 7, 2010 #8 of 37
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Some ppl been excited to see new CPU player on the the market of DVR ... so you got it in HR24-500.
     
  9. Nov 8, 2010 #9 of 37
    SWORDFISH

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    Rich -

    I think you are jumping to conclusions here. You may have just had a bad HR24-500.

    You performed numerous Menu Resets with an external drive connected to your HR24-500 and the box fried.

    While it's possible your conclusion is correct, there is no evidence that the external drive caused the problem, it just happened to be connected at the time the box fried.

    I am using an HR24-500 with an external drive, and have reset the box several times (although not consecutively) using Menu Reset without issue. I'm sure this holds true for many others, or we would have heard about it by now.

    It seems just as likely that the same thing would have happened if you had reset the box numerous times while using the internal drive.


    SF
     
  10. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    A while back I read some reviews on the Thermaltake dock that said it allowed no air flow to the bottom of the drive and in direct measurements the hit as high as 60°C causing drive failure.

    Link

    Link

    Link

    I don't have any experience with these but it seems to be an issue. :shrug:

    Mike
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    The external HDD didn't cause the problem. There's nothing wrong with it, I'm using it on the replacement 500 and it's fine. This is something we went thru with the early 20-700s too. Overtime, they got to the point where the external devices didn't have to be rebooted by us after an NR, but the 500s seem to need that reboot to function properly with an external device. That 500 worked very well when I got it and I never saw any problems until the first NR. I really think if I had just gone back to how we used to have to treat the early 20-700s, I'd still have that 500. No proof of that, of course, but treating the early 20-700s in the manner I treated that 500 would have caused problems that might have made the 20-700s unusable.

    Sometimes what seems obvious to folks who have had these problems in the past don't seem as obvious to those who didn't have those problems. And most people don't want to admit that they might have wrecked a box inadvertently.

    That's different. An internal drive acts differently than an external drive does and you can always use the Menu Restart on an HR with just an internal drive, no matter the size of it.

    Basically put, the external drive has to spin up after a reboot and that doesn't happen when an NR comes down. The external device just keeps on running while the NR reboots the HR. The same thing happens when you use the Menu Restart command. The external HDD just keeps spinning while the HR restarts. Better to restart both, but the external HDD needs to be started before the HR is plugged in so that it has time to spin up and be recognized by the HR when it starts.

    Rich
     
  12. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    WOW - good to know information - thanks for sharing!
     
  13. Herdfan

    Herdfan Well-Known Member

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    Teays...
    I don't think so. I have had several issues with my HR24-100 and its external EVDS 1.5 in an MX-1.

    Sometimes it just won't reconnect to the external and several reboots of both are required. I have swapped MX-1's and still have the same issue.

    Next time I am just going to take my time and open the case (its owned) and make the 1.5 an internal.
     
  14. paul91

    paul91 Legend

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    I installed internally a WD EVDS 2TB in my hr24-500 and it locks up for about 3 seconds when I try to play something from the list and after I am done watching and deleting something from my list...have not found what is causing it quite yet
     
  15. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I feel no heat on the base of any of my TT docking stations. The HDDs aren't what I'd call hot either.

    Rich
     
  16. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I haven't tried an MX-1 on the 24s yet, but I'm not surprised that you've had that problem. I never meant that the problem was just with the Thermaltakes, I would expect to see it with any external device.

    Internals are definitely the way to go in any of the HRs that are owned. I wish I could easily put one in my owned 200. But that would take some work and I'll get around to modifying the "sled"/bracket one of these days.

    Rich
     
  17. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I'd call that a "freeze up". A lockup would result in having to reboot the 24. I don't think you have a problem. What you're seeing will probably be fixed in the next few NRs.

    Rich
     
  18. SWORDFISH

    SWORDFISH Legend

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    That's my point. You are saying that because you had a perfectly good external drive connected when you did the reset, your HR24 was damaged.

    I had connection problems in the past with my HR20-700 where it was not recognized after an update. However, my box was not damaged by this, and I don't recall anyone else's being damaged either.


    I am not disputing that you may need to do this at times when the drive is not recognized. I just don't think there is evidence to support your theory that not doing this caused damage to your HR24.

    There are a lot of people here using the HR24-500 with an external drive. My bet is that most do not follow your procedure when a NR arrives or when they need to reset the box. No one else has reported a damaged box due to this. I still think it is more likely that you had a bad HR24, rather than damage caused by an "improper" booting sequence.


    SF
     
  19. SWORDFISH

    SWORDFISH Legend

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    Was your HR24 damaged by this ?

    Rich's theory that his box was damaged by doing Menu Resets with the external drive connected is what I don't agree with.


    SF
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Well, you might be right. I can't prove what I did caused the 500 to fail, but it did and the only thing that I can think of that caused it to fail was the many times I used Menu Restart and never rebooted after an NR downloaded. I suppose I could prove my point by repeating what I did, or disprove it, but I'm not gonna take that chance. And I'm going to go right on believing I wrecked that 500. :)

    Rich
     

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