When AT&T shuts down sat TV, what will become of the DBS allocated spectrum?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by tkrandall, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Jun 4, 2019 #81 of 107
    tkrandall

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    now how would this work in flyover country with little/no broadband??

    https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/at-t-gets-serious-about-sunsetting-satellites

    “The biggest cost we have is the truck roll and getting that installation out,” AT&T chief financial officer John Stephens said at the Deutsche Bank Media, Internet & Telecom Conference.

    “We’ve been beta-testing within our employee base a thing called Osprey, which is a self-installed, full linear product,” he said. “You don’t have to do a ‘roll the truck, pull out a ladder, climb the roof and put out a satellite dish.’ You can hook this box into your fiber line, your broadband line — whether it’s ours or somebody else’s — so effectively the only truck roll is the UPS truck.”
     
  2. Jun 4, 2019 #82 of 107
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't until they have broadband, but Directv doesn't have any reason to shut down satellite for at least a decade. A lot will change for people in rural areas over that decade since 5G should be just about everywhere by then.
     
  3. Jun 4, 2019 #83 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    From Feb. 2018 article at Execs on AT&T Video Transition Strategy: More OTT with Directv Shifted to Rural Areas - Telecompetitor

    Also on this week’s call, however, AT&T Senior Executive Vice President and CFO John Stephens noted that the company will continue to rely on satellite video delivery for rural areas for the foreseeable future. He did not detail the reasons behind this, but the likely explanation is that some rural areas are less likely to have quality broadband at high enough speeds to support video streams, particularly multiple video streams, while also supporting email, social media, telecommuting and other applications.
    Before too long, I expect that we won't see much from AT&T in terms of national advertising/marketing for DirecTV. It'll still be sold but targeted to rural customers. Lots of direct mail marketing, probably.

    The streaming platform that DirecTV Now runs on, paired with the Osprey set-top box, will be AT&T's main TV service that they push, especially to customers who take home broadband from AT&T. For new customers, it will fully replace Uverse TV and will replace DirecTV satellite for anyone with home broadband from any provider. I expect the service will be called AT&T TV. We'll see. Should launch before the end of summer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  4. Jun 5, 2019 #84 of 107
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Those guys are trashing DIRECTV for one reason only. They get paid more to start a new service so if they get you to switch it’s a new service and they make more money. If you had uverse they’d tell you to switch to satellite.

    There are a lot of scumbags in the sales department.
     
  5. Jun 6, 2019 #85 of 107
    ericknolls

    ericknolls Member

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    Look who is championing all of this? Randall Stephenson - the mouth piece of AT&T. He is all for the destruction of DIRECTV. Why does he need two streaming services, DIRECTV and UVerse? He didn't buy DIRECTV to make money from it. He bought it to create these streaming services and dismantle the satellite service. Every few months Stephenson opens his mouth and says something to throw a monkey wrench in DIRECTV'S life!
     
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  6. Jun 7, 2019 #86 of 107
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    No, he's talking about what investors want to hear. They don't want to hear about mature technologies like satellite or LTE, they want to hear about streaming and 5G.

    This is what happens when you have executives compensated via short term stock market moves, and thus have a market that is hyper focused on the short term. You listen to Warren Buffett talk and he'll talk about railroads and utilities, which are among the biggest holdings of Berkshire Hathaway. Sure, they aren't sexy and investors might want to chase after electric trucks and gridless rooftop PV installs, but railroads and utilities are going to be around for a long time yet and throw off tons of cash even though they don't get the high multiple of assumed growth.

    There was a fun example a couple years ago when "blockchain" was at peak meme where a company that had mostly ceased operations years ago changed their name to include "blockchain" in it and the stock price shot up by hundreds of percent. That's the intelligence level of the people Stephenson is talking to.
     
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  7. Jun 7, 2019 #87 of 107
    tkrandall

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    Thanks for that link.

    I still find it curious that AT&T is focusing so much on the OTT service and cloud DVR solution, while at the same seemingly being almost ambivalent, if not disinterested, in delivering the physical broadband connection in many cases. Seems they have more savings in mind than just avoiding the truck roll. As I may have already mentioned, I live in a fairly affluent area of a metro county with 750K+ people in it and the best AT&T can deliver at my house is ~12 mbps ADSL, with no sign of fiber or faster rates anytime soon, despite frequent junk mail flyers about their fiber product being "in my neighborhood". 5G won't be an option either, as we are in the center of a fairly large weak signal hole from all 4 major cellular carriers, including 700 mhz band 12 LTE coverage. AT&T's competition for true broadband is Comcast, who can deliver 100-200 mbps, but I don't see any signs of AT&T trying to deliver that kind of speed more broadly on our area with any earnestness. So are they fine with customers like me going to Comcast for broadband, and hoping that I will take the AT&T OTT solution for content over Comcast's combined physical and content/service offering?
     
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  8. Jun 7, 2019 #88 of 107
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The coverage problems with 5G may work in your favor. Where AT&T et al may be happy to ignore where you live on the "fringe" of the current towers, that hole will get bigger with 5G. It may become big enough to fill.

    AT&T and their customers won't know for sure until 5G goes active. AT&T does seem to be moving away from DSL ... and if they can fill the need with 5G (even if in requires a new set of towers) it may be cheaper for them than installing fiber.

    As far as Verizon Wireless, they will be shutting down 3G at the end of the year. The space they free up from 3G will be able to be used for 4G services. Signals tend to shrink when there are a lot of users online. The additional 4G capacity should allow their coverage to grow and "may" fill in their gaps. For both Verizon and AT&T customers using 5G would also free up 4G bandwidth ... but it will take a while for people to get 5G devices. Verizon's termination of 3G will be more immediate.
     
  9. Jun 8, 2019 #89 of 107
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The range of 5G and LTE is pretty much the same at the same frequency. The fact that 5G will exploit new higher frequencies with a shorter range doesn't shorten the range at traditional cellular frequencies.
     
  10. Jun 8, 2019 #90 of 107
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    And what frequencies will AT&T and Verizon be using for 5G? AT&T will be continuing their 3G service beyond December so they won't be using 850 MHz. My Verizon rep tells me 850 MHz will be used for additional 4G (at least in my area).
     
  11. Jun 8, 2019 #91 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    AT&T will be using 700 MHz for their long-range (but lower-speed) 5G. (Hmm, DISH owns a bunch of 700 MHz spectrum too that they claim will eventually support 5G service...)

    T-Mobile will also offer long-range 5G on 600 & 700 MHz. Don't know about Verizon. All of them will also deploy ultra-bandwidth millimeter wave 5G too, using small cells in dense urban/suburban areas, stadiums, etc. but that stuff will never blanket entire areas. (Sprint's midrange 2.5 GHz 5G could do so, if they had the money to actually deploy it widely, which is where the T-Mo merger comes in...)

    In Nationwide 5G, It Will Be AT&T's 700MHz vs. T-Mobile's 600MHz | Light Reading
     
  12. Jun 8, 2019 #92 of 107
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH plans on launching their 5G network next year.
     
  13. Jun 8, 2019 #93 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    Next year they'll only launch a narrowband IoT network. The "real" 5G network that could be used for regular consumer purposes (including video) -- and which they project to cost $10 billion to build -- won't come until after that (if they actually follow through). We'll see what happens...

    Dish Undaunted About Wireless Plans | Light Reading

    Dish Network Aspires to Be America's Rakuten in 5G | Light Reading
     
  14. Jun 8, 2019 #94 of 107
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Initial deployments of 5G are basically for marketing purposes. The real deployments will be replacing 3G as it is phased out, or upgrading older early gen LTE installs to 5G in the same frequency band.

    Exploitation of higher frequencies for 5G take place in denser areas where the distance from the tower doesn't matter. The really high frequencies (i.e. 24 / 29 GHz and higher) will be blocked by your hand/head, walls, and even leaves so you'll need line of sight in several directions (and have to be outdoors) so it remains to be seen how well that will really work for deployments.

    Which is probably why those frequencies got only $1 to $2 billion in auctions, whereas the lower frequencies generated more than ten times that much.
     
  15. Jun 9, 2019 #95 of 107
    poppo

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    As someone who lives rural but only 30 miles out of the city, I can barely get a cell signal. 5G is not the solution for rural people. I currently have a WISP for internet service and it is nearly $90 a month for "up to" 25M. In reality, you may get 10 during prime time and often lower. Streaming HD is iffy at best. Go out another 30 miles and they are still using dial-up or sat internet.
     
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  16. Jun 10, 2019 #96 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    When you hear "5G" instead just think "forms of wireless broadband delivery that will arrive in the 2020s". They won't all look like the current cellular model, with tall towers that beam out signals directly to receivers (e.g. phones) in that vicinity.

    I read somewhere recently that SpaceX Starlink (next-gen satellite broadband) won't sell service directly to end users but will rather work through existing ISPs to sell the service. I've also read some interesting information about AT&T's Project AirGig, which uses cheap plastic repeaters to beam focused 5G waves from one utility pole to the next, riding through the magnetic field around power lines, basically acting like "wireless fiber". It could potentially expand the broadband distribution grid to be everywhere the power grid is. But such a system would still have to tap into the "core" of the internet at multiple points (i.e. "backhaul"). How would it do that? Could be fiber. Could be microwave. But what if instead it was being fed at those point by downlinks/uplinks to Starlink satellites? AT&T, in cooperation with electrical utilities, could have Starlink antennas (dishes?) attached to certain utility poles, with super-high bandwidth downlinks. That bandwidth could then be distributed onward via AirGig in all four directions of the power grid from that pole.

    Could such a system work? I dunno. But I think you'll see engineers get creative with ways to deliver faster speeds with lower infrastructure costs per home passed. And that has to mean some form of wireless.
     
  17. Jun 10, 2019 #97 of 107
    slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    AirGig has nothing to do with 5G, it doesn't "beam focused 5G waves from one utility pole to the next". It is purely a backhaul technology, and you're right that it needs to get its connection somewhere but that will ALWAYS be fiber. It is capable of handling hundreds of gigabits per second, trying to feed that through satellite would be like trying to feed a fire hose through a garden spigot.

    AT&T has fiber all the place since they use it to feed any tower that's upgraded to LTE (or 5G in the future) and obviously those towers need electricity, so there will be plenty of potential connection points for AirGig.
     
  18. Jun 10, 2019 #98 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    Maybe, before telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, you should do a bit of Googling and reading.

    AT&T’s Project AirGig could extend 5G mmWave signals
     
  19. Jun 10, 2019 #99 of 107
    NashGuy

    NashGuy Active Member

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    There are lots of rural areas that don't and won't have a 5G tower that can aerially reach all the homes there. Even with 5G over the long-range 700 MHz spectrum that AT&T will use, that won't reach everywhere and may not have sufficient bandwidth to serve all the homes plus mobile devices in that area. (This is what T-Mobile plans to do on 600 MHz and it will improve the rural broadband situation, giving a lot more homes access to 50 or 100 Gbps service, but it won't fully solve the digital divide.)
     
  20. tkrandall

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    FWIW - this analyst thinks rural broadband's buildout is more of a sure thing... We'll see...... Rural fiber?!

    The Case for a Deal Between Dish and AT&T’s DirecTV

    “The video ecosystem is shifting quickly to a broadband-focused world, leaving satellite as the fastest-declining legacy TV platform,” Cusick wrote in a report on Monday. “As rural broadband buildout using copper, fiber, and wireless moves along, supported by government funding, the natural satellite TV customer base shrinks every year and eventually will struggle to justify two, or possibly even one constellation of dedicated [direct broadcast satellites].”

    Holding on to satellite TV subscribers through bundling with other services like home internet or phone services isn’t an option for Dish, which lacks a wired network, and has been a harder sell for AT&T than management expected it would be when it bought DirecTV in 2014.​
     

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