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Which Signal Amplifier To Buy???

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Wills77, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004
    I am looking for some advice on purchasing an amplifier for satellite signal for one of my customers. I have a Dish 500 installed with 3 301's. The problem is I have about 400ft of cable (each line) from dish to receiver. I run the check switch and all I can get is odd transponders on both 119 and 110. I have ruled out the LNB and all receivers for the problem. So could I please have some advice as to which amplifier to buy. Thanks much in advance.
     
  2. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    Are you using cable with a solid copper center conductor? Sounds like you are losing DC power to the LNBF.
     
  3. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004
    I am using RG6. And yes, It does have a solid copper center conductor.

    Also on the signal meter screen when I go to Sat. 119 and use an even transponder it will show VERY LITTLE, like around 10 and then back to zero.
     
  4. larrystotler

    larrystotler Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Gold Club

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    If the odds are coming in ok, dump the DP Quad or DP34 for a 500 Quad. This will solve the problem.
     
  5. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004
    My mistake I forgot to mention that I am using DP Quad, and also had tried a Legacy Quad. Which is what led me to believe that it was the length of cable that was the issue.
     
  6. larrystotler

    larrystotler Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Gold Club

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    The only way to get around this would be to have a way to add voltage to the line in the middle of the run. The problem with the evens is that if you get under 15.7 volts, the legacy lnb will send back the odds. With DP, you need at least 19.6. Don't know what else to tell you.....solar rechargable battery?
     
  7. JohnH

    JohnH Hall Of Fame

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    If you really must try an Amp, The Shack has an RCA unit which is indoor only. Seems to work quite well.
     
  8. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004
    I guess I just thought there would be something out on the market??? I figured someone else had to have run in to this problem before.
     
  9. boba

    boba Hall Of Fame

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    400ft cable run is exceeding DISH recommendations by about a 100 ft. If you absolutely need that cable run it is time to learn about and use RG-11 cable. Legacy equipment won't work with that long a run because switching signals would disappear, Dish Pro relies on voltage so if you use a larger diameter cable you may reduce the voltage loss where it will still perform. The biggest problem with Dish Pro will be the 1650-2150 frequency band dropping off you may still need an amplifier to correct that. Contact your DISH Network supplier they will help you get the education you need.
    :)
     
  10. bigrick

    bigrick Registered User

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    Oct 21, 2003
    or try a sw 44 or 64 switch. The added power supply should help.
     
  11. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004
    That was what I was leaning towards, but was just wondering if anyone had experienced this in the field themselves, as I dont want my customer to buy something and have it not solve the problem. Thank you.
     
  12. larrystotler

    larrystotler Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Gold Club

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    E* recommended cable lengths using solid copper RG6 are 125ft for legacy installs and 200 ft for DP. Using the SW44 or 64 may work, or you may get too much of a voltage drop which may end up ruining the switch. Can you find out exactly how much voltage you have at the dish using DP or legacy? If it's not too great, you may be able to insert power onto the DP setup but you need to make sure it only goes towards the dish and is blocked back to the receiver. Alos, with the SW44/64, port 1 would probably be the only port that will work unless you place the switch in the middle of the run. PLacing it at the dish would power the dish, but the receivers will still not be able to sent out enough voltage on ports 2,3,4. I would try the RG11, charge the customer for it, and if that doesn't work, you get to eat the install and pull it. It's just too much of a cable run.
     
  13. finniganps

    finniganps Hall Of Fame

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    400 feet - are you running this from the neighbors house to yours as an additional receiver?
     
  14. Wills77

    Wills77 Mentor

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    Feb 27, 2004

    LOL Not even close seeing how my home is about 20 miles from there. But i suppose in this case i may as well be running 20 miles of cable!
     
  15. red hazard

    red hazard Legend DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 11, 2004
    The reason why the even transponders cannot be received is because the signal attenuation of the higher band, where the even transponders are at (1650 - 2150 MHz) is greater on coax than the lower band (950 - 1450 MHz). You can look at any Commscope or Belden specs. and see substantially higher losses at the higher freqs.

    Belden 7731A RG11 should do the trick for you but it's expensive.

    The results using line amplifiers is a mixed bag because while they increase the signal strength, they also increase the noise level. I saw a post over a year ago where the author recorded the signal strengths on various transponders with and without a line amplifier and some transponders were SLIGHTLY better while most were somewhat worse. That also tells me that the signal reading from the receiver is not just about signal strength. I suspect that it's actually EB/NO or something similar to alpha flunk.
     
  16. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Hall Of Fame

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    Note that a signal amplifier will NOT solve the voltage drop problem.

    Legacy LNBFs and switches requires a difference in voltage to control even/odd. Therefore, it's rather difficult (but not impossible) to bump it up.

    DishPro can be driven with external power by using a splitter that blocks DC on one side (the side going to the switch/receiver) and simply inserting 18VDC on the other side.

    I GOTTA ask - why is a 400' run required? That's just bonkers!
     
  17. 1A12

    1A12 Registered User

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    Jun 23, 2004
    Anyone Know the price per foot on the Belden RG11. I know Belden makes good cable from my experience in my ham days.
     
  18. Cholly

    Cholly Old Guys Rule! DBSTalk Club

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    Indian...
    I agree that Belden 7731A appears to be about the best choice in low loss RG11/U cable -- at 2250 MHz, it has a loss of 6.9 db/100 ft. and a DC resistance of 2.5 ohms/1000 ft. NewarkInOne Electronics in Troy lists Belden 7731A at $461.07 for a 500 ft. spool. You can find additional distributors for Belden cable by going to the Belden web site and clicking on the distributor locator tab. There are many distributors in Michigan. Not all will give online price quotes without registering.
     
  19. red hazard

    red hazard Legend DBSTalk Gold Club

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  20. larrystotler

    larrystotler Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Boy, this looks to be an expensive install. I hope you haven't activated it, or the retailer will get burned.
     
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