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Who bought the last mpeg 2 at full retail ?

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by ken310, Mar 6, 2006.

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  1. Mar 6, 2006 #1 of 33
    ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    It would be interesting to know where e* drew the line and stopped selling the mpeg 2 receivers at full retail knowing about the mpeg 4 turn on?

    I bought my 942 on 11/25/05 for $644.14 from a local Dish dealer.
     
  2. Mar 6, 2006 #2 of 33
    ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    Someone asked me privately, "What's the point?"

    My response,

    The point is when enough people stand up and say something is wrong companies listen. I have a very hard time rewarding a company that treats the people who got them where they are like crap and in all good conscience not sure I wish to continue doing business with them. Companies should be held to a standard and who else is going to do it if not their customers? What e* does will be in response to their customers. Trust there will be suites and e* will step up to some extent.

    You don't know me and I agree a lot of the complaining is people wanting something they didn't pay for and that's not me or a lot of others. I used my receiver for 3 weeks and it never did work correctly. I paid $650 for a receiver they now agree I haven't received yet and are now trying to find a new one to send me, even now instead of a 622. Part of this because I bought it from my local dealer not them. Why would that make a diff?

    If I had bought, received, and used my receiver for months before this happened it would be different, How much I guess would depend or how long it actually was since I received it and put it to use. I my case I'm still waiting and am curious as I'll bet others are as to when e* stopped selling them????? Was Feb 1st the cut off date? And if you bought yours on Jan 30, 06 would you that bought yours 6 months ago feel the same?
     
  3. Mar 6, 2006 #3 of 33
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't know... but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still selling 942s up and until midnight just before 2/1!

    Also consider that many retailers still had (probably have) 921s and 942s still in stock today, and I suspect they are still selling them too. And of course lots of people are still selling them on eBay.

    So, if the argument is against selling these receivers... then you should be mad at anyone and everyone who is selling them, and that includes folks on here who have recently upgraded and post that they are selling their 942s on eBay now, knowing the limitations!

    I've pointed this out before... many customers are no better than they claim Dish has been in regards to this.

    But on the more general front... almost every piece of technology you can buy is "old" as soon as you take it home. Many things are obsolete within a few months.

    At least in the case of the 942 receiver, you can still get every channel now that Dish sold you when you bought/leased that receiver. Sure, you can't get the new MPEG4 channels... but there is never a promise of new channels from any provider.

    NOW, if Dish had deactivated 942s or stopped all MPEG2 programming on 2/1 and forced us all to upgrade... it would be a different scenario... but basically we all have a choice... Upgrade now and get a few new channels for our efforts... OR stay with what we got and enjoy those receivers for another year or so before taking the MPEG4 plunge.

    It's hard for me to get too angry when I consider those things.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2006 #4 of 33
    JM Anthony

    JM Anthony Child of the 60's DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Ken - I'm with you. I have a difficult time understanding E*s business mentality on this one. They are in a business subject to a fair amount of customer churn and you would be thinking they'd be looking for things to help differentiate them from the rest of the pack. Their customer service has been steadily going down hill and they are starting to look more and more like a cable company. Between a 921 and 942, I've got $1,700 invested in hardware purchases. I've been with these guys for the better part of a decade, paying for a lot of subscription services, and expect them to provide a better upgrade offer. The response I got from a CEO CSR I dealt with was less than stellar - "I understand your concerns, but this is all we can do and we're not changing our position."

    John
     
  5. Mar 7, 2006 #5 of 33
    normang

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    There is no company I have ever heard of that will discount any product until its replacement has been announced. In some cases, dealers will start applying discounts of their own or rebates to clear inventory.. Other than that I cannot think of any company that discounts a product until it actually announces a shipping or soon to ship replacement
     
  6. Mar 7, 2006 #6 of 33
    BobMurdoch

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    Unfortunately, this is a long standing corporate practice. Companies "clear the channel" by selling all the old stuff, .... just before they basically say that it is crap shortly afterwards. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Consumer Electronics show is AFTER Christmas. If the show happened in November, sales before Christmas would plummet as they realized that their new computer or gadget will be replaced by a "new" and "improved" version that makes them hate what they bought (Apple is the worst with this and their Ipods).

    The best way to dodge this is to buy at Costco. No one has a return policy as generous as theirs. You may be able to avoid some buyers remorse if you go through them.....
     
  7. Mar 7, 2006 #7 of 33
    ken310

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    eBay is a world wide yard sale and should be considered quite different then buying from your/my local Dish dealer. I'm not sure I get it, but what is the difference between buying directly from e* and buying from a local Dish dealer?
    I try to make well informed decision about the purchases I make as I'm disabled and money is tight. I watched this mess from the beginning of hd waiting for things to stabilize and finally after years of waiting, watching Charlie in Nov, searching the Internet for info, and being promised that if and when mpeg 4 did come out the 942 would hold up I made the plunge.

    ___________________

    942
    2x 510's
    2x 4700's
    3x 3700's
    etc, etc, etc
    5th dish 3/8/06
    Sony 34" XBR
    dish© 9+yrs
     
  8. Mar 7, 2006 #8 of 33
    normang

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    If you had asked the question here back in November 05,you would have probably been told to wait..
     
  9. Mar 8, 2006 #9 of 33
    mikeyoung

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    I sympathize with the folks that bought the old hardware there is no doubt you got a raw deal.
    I realize this advice is too late now, but what were you thinking of paying over $600 for a piece of proprietary hardware that by its very design is destined to be bsoleted at dish's whim ?
    Owning this kind of stuff is just a BAD deal - youre assuming all the risk - when you can lease for about $5 or so ?
    Do the math! Did you really think that this hardware was going to last for 10 years ?
    I understand the DESIRE to own vs rent but it just doesnt make sense. I have had about 4 or 5 different recievers in the 6 years I have had Dish that may or may not be typical.
     
  10. Jim5506

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    Someone probably bought one unwittingly on January 31 at 11:59pm.
     
  11. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    Supposedly they were never available as a lease to current customers although I've heard of some who say they were able to get them?
    Personally I was not, and had tried since hd/dvr's came out. The 921 looked like a bad deal when they came out and seemed to have for the most part stayed that way. I remember when the 942 came out I couldn't lease or buy one.
    Yes I would have loved to have been able to lease one and called every other month or so since I bought my first hdtv almost 2+ years ago. It never saw hd content because I wasn't willing to give up the dvr feature for a 811 which was for the most part all that was ever offered to me on lease. The 921 starting at 1k seemed like a bad purchase for the little content offered. I just got tired of waiting and the 942 was reported to be fairly solid and was to be the receiver for hd so I took the deep plunge but not willingly. I think they should have stopped selling them and started leasing them to ALL current customers if available which they were at least 90 days before the switch.
     
  12. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Companies that are shipping technology A today, are almost ready to go with technology B testing and have technology C in the approval stage and have folks working on plans for whatever technology D will be.

    So, in essence, companies should never sell anything because they already know it is several levels "obsolete" since they are already working on the next several replacements.

    Bottom line in technology always is... shop around, research, try to find the best price and buy what you most need/want... then don't shop anymore once you make the purchase, or you will have regrets of not waiting that extra week or month or whatever.
     
  13. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    Can you give some examples of such radical shifts in tech that have left people over night with antiquated equipment?

    Only thing I can think of that may come close is in pc's but I went the Mac route and they've/I've only had one hiccup as the tech savy at Dish say in what 10 yrs+?
    My almost 2 yr old G4/1.2 iBook isn't the fastest laptop anymore and I'm not running the latest OS but I'm sitting here typing on it. Over the years it costs in upgrades to keep closer to current (if I want) but it still works great. Mac has been using mpeg4 since 2002, it's called Quicktime.
    I'm sure it's simple but why all the secrecy? Piracy, espionage?
     
  14. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    What antiquated equipment are you left with?

    The 921 and 942 still get all the channels you were promised at the time you bought them. There was never a promise that you would be able to get every new channel in the future.

    No one is forcing a receiver upgrade... we can all keep what we have and watch what we have now without interruption. We can also upgrade if we want and get some new channels.

    I'm using a 3 year old computer too... but I can't just go and buy/install the latest software/hardware in it. It is perfectly great at what I use it for, but it has been behind the technology curve for quite a while.

    My first cellphone didn't have colors or graphics... but it still worked as a phone like it was advertised! Just like the "antiquated" receivers are still working with Dish now... just not getting all the new channels, which was never part of the promise.

    I bought a new truck a couple of years ago... then they started offering satellite radio as a standard in the trucks... I have to buy a new radio and get a new antenna install if I wanted satellite radio... but my current radio still works just fine for all the non-satellite radio, so what could I complain about?

    Japan had 1080 analog TV in the 1990s... and some European countries had 750 or so analog TV before my lifetime... so much of the new HD technology has been around in one form or another for quite a while... so I'm not sure what exactly was the point of mentioning MPEG4 as existing since the late 1990s... Some things take a while to adopt. Other things are adopted more quickly.
     
  15. normang

    normang Icon

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    Every company that I know of keeps its tech secrets to itself almost until release because of competition.

    While MPEG4 has been around for a long time in various forms, its never been in a satellite receiver, and it really wasn't that big of a secret, its been discussed here for at least 18 months as Dish did discuss it, What Dish didn't say until the January 06 Charlie Chat is when recievers would be available that supported MPEG4, and Dish, along with many other companies routinely do not discuss release dates of new hardware for a number of reasons..

    Some I can think of include not letting the competition know where you are specifically with your plans until you are ready to go. Not sabotaging sales of their existing line of equipment, this can be everything from receivers to computers, to ipods, to TV's etc etc.

    While you can say its unfair that you or someone you know bought a Dish receiver, when someone at Dish knew that newer model receivers were right around the corner, the best that can be said is, for good, bad or indifferent is that Dish is far from the only company to do this..

    This happens all the time with all sorts of technology, and especially computers and home electronics. A lifecycle of many home electronics product is 6-9 months.. Its possible that newer models of Dish recievers are already being worked on for release later this year with newer, faster, better features and darn, I just got that 622.
     
  16. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    hdme,
    It's interesting how many people know what myself and others have been or were promised. I don't remember you being in the store the day I bought my receiver, on the phone with all the people I spoke to about it, or in my computer chat or email. You also don't know my or others specific situations but you judge. I've been using my old 510 lately and am still waiting for Dish to find me a New 942 and ship it to me. I was last told hopefully today or tomorrow? An ert supervisor trying to help out gave me Voom and some other nice concessions but when the installer came today to install my 2nd dish the dp44? switch wasn't authorized and she (the ert) who set it up wasn't in today so the guy left and the work order was canceled. I wonder how long it will take to get them back out here? I'm trying very hard to be patience but it's been a month now and they agree I've never received the receiver that I paid $644.14 for but since I bought from my local dealer and not directly from them they say they can't do more?? Look up the word antiquated.
     
  17. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    I agree with a lot of what you say and I hope they're working on new receivers, I would expect it. I wonder how many people who recently bought the 942 just before the switch and are/were stuck with only 5 channels of hd have actually dropped the hd because of the now limited content or just dropped Dish. Some forums suggest their a quite a few. No one should have to spend $650 to get a hd/dvr in their home to be told the next day oh by the way you can't get the future hd channels we told you you could because today we're doing mpeg4.
    Can anyone acknowledge that with all the misinformation out there that maybe some statements were made that weren't accurate. Not a sales person right? When you ask someone in his or her profession questions you expect a certain amount of accuracy in their answers. Sure if it's Wallmart or you may not want to rely to heavily on their answers but in a tech savvy Audio Video store you expect more accuracy and most of the time you'll get it. I received an apology from the guy I bought it from but since they didn't make any money on the deal I don't expect them to eat it, be more careful in the future but personally I don't expect any more from him. Now the company that pocketed my money who I've been with 9+ years, yes I expect more from them. I may not get it but feel entitled to my opinion about it. When I called the 942 support team today about the dp 44 switch to go with the Voom upgrade I was to receive today the guy proceeded to tell me about the New 622 deal and suggested I upgrade April 1st. Hand to God it's true. My account is littered with notes beginning from early Feb. but he proceeded to tell me about this New great deal on a new hd/dvr, he wasn't sure of the receivers model #(622) and had to look at ? to get it. At this point I'll be happy to get what they've now promised and move on to something less stressful.
     
  18. normang

    normang Icon

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    Ken, first thing you have to do is accept a few things, first - life is not fair, never has been, never will be. Second, every day someone somewhere buys some electronics device, cell phone, a computer, something, only to have it obsoleted within hours, days. weeks of purchase. The question then becomes, can one live with it? If not, you can try and return it, you can sell it to someone who may not give one hoot about the shortcomings, but you will probably take a loss on the sale. You can upgrade, if there are upgrade options. Dish is providing options, are they the best options? They are the only options that Dish feels financially comfortable with.. As for the channels you cannot get, there are depending on the package, at least 180+ other channels that can be viewed, along with your HD OTA, if your in a position to receive those channels where you live. If that is not adequate, then your only choice in this situation is to upgrade via one of the available options.

    People get incorrect information everyday, even from supposedly knowledgeable people. I can walk into a Best Buy/Magnolia, or Ultimate Electronics and talk to sales people and ask them what I consider to be a simple technical question, and they are clueless or give me what I know is a wrong answer, or have to check with someone else. Sometimes they do have the right answer. Some people don't have the information until it is given to them. Support staff in many companies are the last to know of impending changes or are being trained only days before a product rollout with instructions not to pass on certain information until the product is released. You may note when you call some support lines, you get a recording that says your call maybe monitored for quality purposes, which is true, but it also provides an incentive for a tech not to tell customers information that is not supposed to be available until a specific date.

    Also, every CSR you talk to at Dish may not review your call history before going into the upgrade to a 622 pitch.. It may not even have occurred to the person you talked to about your DP44 question to review any specific information about your account since you called about a switch question, hard to say..

    In any event, Dish is moving into the future, whether we like it or not. There are certain business realities involved in this transition and some customers are not going to like some of the decisions, because its not feasible to hand 12 million customers a free MPEG4 receiver, and you have to draw a line somewhere that moves the customer base from the old to the new. Every company, Dish, Direct, Cable Co's deal with customer churn every day, people move, can't afford a higher package, don't watch HBO, ShowTime, or cannot afford them. cancel them, get upset over a repair or replacement, has a problem that cannot be readily resolved, the list goes on. The question then becomes, when you move to some other service for whatever reason, is it really better, is the grass really greener on the other side.. IMHO, it rarely is..
     
  19. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm a little confused now, ken... Are you saying (per the top of this thread) that you paid for your 942 on 11/25/2005 but still don't have it?

    That's an entirely different argument than the one we've been discussing lately... I know if I paid $650 or so almost 4 months ago and didn't have a receiver I would have been complaining and wanting a refund long ago... like back in December!
     
  20. ken310

    ken310 Legend

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    I purchased all this equipment in late Nov early Dec knowing I/we would be out of town and I wanted to have it when I returned home later in Dec. On Dec 27th my father who lived in Miami died and I had to go deal with that, then my already poor health failed Jan 5th so I didn't get back home until Feb 4th. By no ones fault but my own I didn't start using the receiver to record until the superbowl 2/5 at which time I found my receiver to be defective. I tried tirelessly to get them to send me a 622 in exchange for the defective 942. Dish RA'd the 942 on 2/15, when the replacement (refurb) arrived it was filthy and scratched up. I returned it to dish and was told they would find me a new one. Meanwhile I decided to go back to my 510's. I figured two of them on 1 tv would be a decent temporary solution. Turns out 1 of them that was still in the (refurb) bag was defective also so they RA'd it. Now sitting here home on medical leave until April 1st I'm watching my New tv and listening to my New audio system on a single 510. The last offer from them, now up to a ert supervisor on March 6th was/is to send me a New 942 (if they can find one?) a free install of a 61.5 dish for Voom and a $50 credit if and when I upgrade to a 622. After all this time and aggravation I've decided fine let's get on to other things and except the hit. The installer came yesterday (3/8) early to install the 2nd dish and since the dp44 switch he has to use wasn't on the work order and I refused to pay $200 for the switch he left. Argggggg!!!!!!! The ert supervisor wasn't in yesterday? She gave me her direct line # to her desk and there's absolutely no wait to get her voice mail. Now since Feb 5 th I've been hurrying up to wait.
     
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