Hope not. I'd hate to give up my HR20-700 w/ built in OTA.
Agreed - last time I checked there was only a slight difference between OTA and DirecTV. You have to look very closely - maybe a little more noticeable with fast changing screens - especially things like fireworks.CCarncross said:I see some of those same artifacts on BD disks as well...all digitial video is subject to some of those artifacts. I have not seen better broadcast PQ from any provider, I know some say there are a few. And I can see a slight difference between HD locals and OTA locals.
ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and ESPN have all migrated to MPEG-4 transmissions, just to name a few.Mike Greer;3171741 said:Well thank you for dragging me up to present day Mr. Friendly.
Maybe you could enlighten all of us on which locals are creating any non-mpeg2 content on their own?
Some details would help I guess.
So are they now producing their content in MPEG4 and then re-encoding to MPEG2? Or maybe DirecTV has installed local MPEG2-to-MPEG4 encoding equipment at the broadcasters facitily? Last time I checked the broadcasters had to broadcast MPEG2 if they wanted anyone to be able to actually use their broadcasts.
Seems rather unlikely that my local channels are going to cough up the money to pay for MPEG4 that is only useful to DirecTV and Dish Network. But, what do I know - I'm living in the 80's!:lol:
Really?Hoosier205 said:ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and ESPN have all migrated to MPEG-4 transmissions, just to name a few.
It depends on your local channels technology. I believe some locals have direct uplinks to DirecTV & do so in mpeg4.Mike Greer said:Really?
So when I watch something on CBS who is doing the transcoding? DirecTV, my local broadcaster or CBS? How about when I watch my local news?
It depends on the delivery method and/or route. As for locals, they were required to update equipment. I don't know much about the in-between, only that many have already migrated to MPEG-4. It was big news elsewhere.Mike Greer;3171784 said:Really?
So when I watch something on CBS who is doing the transcoding? DirecTV, my local broadcaster or CBS? How about when I watch my local news?
Yes - I was hoping the Hoosier205 could give us details on who does the MPEG encoding.sigma1914 said:It depends on your local channels technology. I believe some locals have direct uplinks to DirecTV & do so in mpeg4.
So you don't know?!Hoosier205 said:It depends on the delivery method and/or route. As for locals, they were required to update equipment. I don't know much about the in-between, only that many have already migrated to MPEG-4. It was big news elsewhere.
And yet they show up on directv which only recodes and does not dowrez and fios which does neither. Actually, some feeds are mpeg4 from the source and directv does nothing to them.SledgeHammer;3171702 said:I dunno, I'm looking at my TV on "mainstream" HD channels, and I see gradiations, pixelation, jaggies, compression artifacts, etc. Its not a bad picture mind you, but its not a good picture either. I shouldn't see that kind of stuff on the mainstream HD channels like USA, CNN, etc. Ok, I'd expect to see it on the obscure channels like Golf and Fishing channels.
Who claimed that the quality goes up?Mike Greer;3171825 said:As I said earlier, bottom line, when DirecTV receives the MPEG2 or MPEG4 (just so Mr. Hoosier doesn't get upset) from the local stations and then re-encodes it the quality does not go up.
They do a good job in my market and the quality is 'close enough' for me but there is a slight difference compared to OTA. You can't use 'lossy' compression without a loss.
I'm not sure, Hoosier will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DirecTV passes anything along untouched... As in bit-for-bit what they receive. They have to mux multipe channels together and need to control the bandwidth.tonyd79 said:Actually, some feeds are mpeg4 from the source and directv does nothing to them.
SledgeHammer said:No, I mean HD quality. HD quality is not all that great due to the high compression ratios.
Have you ever actually looked at the HD picture from not 15' or whatever away? I know you don't sit 2" from the TV, but look at it that close once. Lots of compression artifacts, pixelation, jaggies, gradiation issues, etc. I sit about 12' away from my 50" TV and I can see compression artifacts, etc. quite often. Not my signal. Everything is all 90+.
Do you have OTA hooked up? Do a side by side of a 1080i program from OTA vs. the same channel from DirecTV. You'll see the OTA version is quite a bit sharper.
tonyd79 said:Considering the HD took a large increase in quality with mpeg4, I disagree.
Laxguy said:Who can't? :lol: Mike, seriously, you don't think there could be better codecs than MPEG2? Basis?
SledgeHammer said:Not true. They compress it further after they get it from the broadcaster. Same way movies are shot in like 8K resolution and then reprocessed to 1080p.
I can't comment on what compression ratio they are using now since I don't know, but I do remember reading somewhere that they compress certain channels more then others. Like sports they compress less then the news or movies, etc.
All missunderstandings.... Just trying to clear things up....Hoosier205 said:Who claimed that the quality goes up?
It is already compressed and packaged when the broadcaster transmits it. The provider isn't doing that, aside from any additional compression necessary for their delivery system. The closest you'll get to a 8K -> 1080p type of scenario is if you are looking at the live, unaltered feed in a production truck at a live event or you are in the studio for a production. Once a network has it ready for transmission, it's already in their resolution (1080i or 720p) and bitrate of choice. Now, the provider can still reduce that resolution and bitrate. Some are better about it than others.SledgeHammer;3171717 said:Not true. They compress it further after they get it from the broadcaster. Same way movies are shot in like 8K resolution and then reprocessed to 1080p.
I can't comment on what compression ratio they are using now since I don't know, but I do remember reading somewhere that they compress certain channels more then others. Like sports they compress less then the news or movies, etc.
Really? PQ is NOT being sacrificed. The more channels per transponder were because of improvements in encoding, not in picture loss.charlie460 said:All the new HD adds are nice, but it sucks that PQ is being sacrificed to squeeze more channels in per TPN... When will the new sat be operational?
tonyd79 said:Really? PQ is NOT being sacrificed. The more channels per transponder were because of improvements in encoding, not in picture loss.
No one has shown a degradation in PQ and we have a lot of very picky people around here.
Yes, the funny part is that fios, which has an unassailed reputation for not doing anything to the feeds is actually transcoding from MPEG4 to MPEG2 for several channels, including HBO.Hoosier205 said:...you're behind the times. Many networks are using MPEG-4 for distribution and have been for awhile.
Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.SledgeHammer said:Not true. They compress it further after they get it from the broadcaster. Same way movies are shot in like 8K resolution and then reprocessed to 1080p.
tonyd79 said:Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.
But your example was a downrez example. So I am confused.
It has been shown that DirecTV is NOT downrezzing HD.
Yes, bad example . A transcode compression would be more like ripping a dual layer DVD down to 4.7GB so you can fit it on a single layer. Same resolution, just compressed to 75% or whatever of the original vs. a 1:1 rip.tonyd79 said:Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.
But your example was a downrez example. So I am confused.
It has been shown that DirecTV is NOT downrezzing HD.
You better ask me how to win a million in lotto ?SledgeHammer said:Yes, bad example . A transcode compression would be more like ripping a dual layer DVD down to 4.7GB so you can fit it on a single layer. Same resolution, just compressed to 75% or whatever of the original vs. a 1:1 rip.
Or like when somebody posts a movie online and its a 300MB file for a 2hr movie.
At a certain compression ratio (same resolution), you start to see artifacts.
Can somebody in the know actual confirm that DirecTV is passing on the broadcast AS IS without compressing it further to save bandwidth?
TBH, I would find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. I can't imagine that DirecTV gets the same quality feed from NBC or FOX or CNN that we get in our houses. I suspect it is much higher quality and compressed down for broadcast.