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Will the 110° W satellite ever be used again by DirecTV in the continental United States?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Pink Jazz, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. peds48

    peds48 Genius.

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    How come the tree is not used in the first example... !rolling
     
  2. JosephB

    JosephB Icon

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    101 vs. 110 wouldn't matter for rain fade. The tops of the clouds at most are 30-40 thousand feet if you have a horrible, horrible storm. The satellites are 22k MILES away, and the difference at those angles are a few hundred miles at most. So, no matter which satellite you're looking at, the entire storm is in your LOS between you and the satellite if the storm comes over your house.

    The only difference would be WHERE the storm goes, and of course that is completely random and would vary storm to storm. It's possible storm A would impact 101 more than 110, just because of where it was, but storm B could impact 110 more than 101 later on.
     
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  3. PrinceLH

    PrinceLH New Member

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    It's probably being used that way, to deny Dish the use of those 3 transponders. If they don't use them, they lose them!
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    same idea as keep Guantanamo :)
     
  5. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    I agree that DIRECTV must find a way to make reasonable use of the three transponders 110, since the FCC does not allow spectrum squatting.

    IOW, its essentially "use 'em or lose 'em" rule for such a valuable resource.

    But OTOH, if for whatever technical reasons DIRECTV, like they do for service here in the CONUS, can't or won't send EPG, SI, receiver authorizations, FW upgrades, etc., data over the Ka band satellites, and the 101 birds won't cover PR, what other logical choice does DIRECTV have but to use 110 for this purpose?
     
  6. PrinceLH

    PrinceLH New Member

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    Too bad that they couldn't arrange a transponder swap with Dish. Trade 3 from 119, for the three at 110. Are they even using the 119 transponders for anything other then locals these days?
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    119w is the core of dish's system; they will not give half of tpn from the sat
     
  8. PrinceLH

    PrinceLH New Member

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    It would be a 3 for 3 trade. They could then have the whole 110 satellite to themselves. Dish is also using a linear satellite at 119w too, aren't they?
     
  9. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    What 3 transponders do you suggest DIRECTV receive in return that Dish or Echostar could offer which would really do them any real benefit though?

    And no, DN does not use any linearly polarized satellites at 119 to my knowledge.

    E14, their currently active bird for DBS programming at 119 is circularly polarized. And Anik F3 at 118.7 (virtually 119) for international programming also uses circular polarization, but on the commercial FSS band (11.7-12.2 GHz).

    The only such U.S. domestic satellite to do that I understand.

    EDIT: See earlier that you suggested swapping the three tps. at 110 for three at 119. But the footprint of D7S there does not cover PR and is even further away now than 110.

    Plus I don't see where Dish would really gain anything from such a trade.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There is no benefit to DISH to have the whole satellite to themselves. They already get to use the 29 other transponders to the maximum extent allowed by law ... getting the last three wouldn't change that. And giving up three transponders at 119 doesn't help DISH.

    It would help DirecTV to not need to have a satellite at 110 ... but what is the benefit to DISH?
     
  11. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    There is no benefit to DISH to have the whole satellite to themselves. They already get to use the 29 other transponders to the maximum extent allowed by law ... getting the last three wouldn't change that. And giving up three transponders at 119 doesn't help DISH.

    It would help DirecTV to not need to have a satellite at 110 ... but what is the benefit to DISH?
    heck I don't even see a benifit to dtv either really. Not at this point in time.

    I have begun to half wonder if DIRECTV isn't going to move everything that's on 119 to d14 or d15 and use 119 for pr as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app
     
  12. jcwest

    jcwest Legend

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    If a big ugly thunderstorm moves between your dish and the satellite it really doesn't matter what angle the dish is set, the signal is reduced or lost.

    J C
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    actually matter, less angle - longer distance would create bigger potential area to heavy clouds come into the angle of your antenna
     
  14. PrinceLH

    PrinceLH New Member

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    I was thinking, that any transponders that Directv have at 119 could be configured for spotbeam use, on the west coast, Alaska and Hawaii. Some of their locals, regional sports networks and western feeds could be contained on that bird. Picking up 3 from Dish, in exchange for the 110 transponders makes sense for Directv, but like was mentioned, it doesn't do much for Dish. It just gives them sole ownership of that location in the arc. You might even make a case for the opposite, by trading the Directv 119 transponders, for the same at 110w. It would make for an easier point, for the Directv dish and compact their signals into an 11 degree spread.
     
  15. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    AFAIK, D7S at 119 cannot redistribute CONUS transponders to spotbeam service or vice-versa, nor are the SBs independently steerable. Like its brothers D4S and D9S, D7S has only two possible configurations depending on whether it is positioned at 101 or 119.

    At 119 it is fixed at 44 transponders assigned to 30 beams. 1 CONUS beam with 7 transponders assigned and 29 spotbeams aimed at the geographical areas illustrated below with 37 transponders distributed over them.

    [​IMG]

    Continued ...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. RMichals

    RMichals Legend

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    Since Directv never custom built and launched a satellite to 110, they have always used their older satellites to keep 110 active, if they had built one custom for 110 perhaps they could have re-used the three transponders and made it all spotbeams at 110 allowing them to cover a ton of markets across conus. However, there is still another unforeseen problem with this scenario and that is the regional uplink freq would have had to be coordinated with the dish spotbeam uplinks also at 110. So among other uses 110 is a storage spot in case directv needs to quickly relocate that asset to either 101 or 119 in case of emergency. A tactic dish network practiced for a long time until recently when most of the junk at 157, 148, 129, 77, 61.5 became so old it could not even serve as a guasi placeholder or be relocated.
     
  17. PrinceLH

    PrinceLH New Member

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    Does Directv still have assets at 72w? They where using it for locals a while back, but I think that they've migrated to the 99/101/103 area. Those Dish locations, are they still using placeholders there? I know that 61.5 was also being used by religious broadcasters.
     
  18. KyL416

    KyL416 Hall Of Fame

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    Plus you'd have an entire mess of upgrading everyone's equipment if they were to put 110 or 119 in use for anything but what they're in use for now.

    The Spanish package, the former Jadeworld package (I think it's Cantonese Direct now), select SD locals and several Sonic Tap channels are on 119. Prior to around 2005 non-HD installs for these cases got a dish that only received 119 and 101. (Eventually they started using the 3 LNB dish for everything)
    Before the Puerto Rico launch, 110 used to be some HD channels, during this pre-MPEG4 era, HD installs got a dish that got 101, 110, 119
    After the MPEG4 debut, the AT-9 and later the Slimline 5 which got 99,101,103,110 and 119 were the norm for HD.
    Because of numerous line of site issues in much of the northeast, they later came out with the Slimline 3 which got 99, 101 and 103.

    If they were to bring 110 back for any major national use, they would need to either swap every Slimline 3 out with either a Slimline 5, bringing back all those line of site issues, or come out with a new LNB/Dish that gets 99,101,103 and 110. Still having the potential chance of line of site issues.

    The same goes if they swap transponders on 110 and 119, they would need to swap out all those 101 and 119 only dishes.

    The satellite that was there moved and is now covering Russia at 55.8e. The actual slot is now used by Dish for their Eastern arc.
     
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  19. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The 72.5* satellite was sold to the Russian Space Service and they relocated it to 55* or so, I believe.
     
  20. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Though I did notice after looking over the FCC filing data for D9S at 101, it does have an option for switching SB transponders 26 and 28 over to CONUS beam service if they wished.

    (Its equipped with odd transponder 27 which can be switched to CONUS service as well, but is already being provided by D8)

    The problem of course is that DIRECTV would lose some SB capacity on their SD network with such a move.

    Notice in the red box and the following notes in the illustration of downlink transponder plan for D9S.

    DIRECTV 9S Channel & Polarization Plan.jpg
     

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