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Working eSata Setups:

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Tips and Resources' started by houskamp, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. Jul 1, 2012 #1901 of 2284
    unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    Wish there was an easy answer.

    I believe the root of your question was about AV/DVR vs Desktop drive. In practical terms I would say they are equivalent as far as potential for data corruption.

    As for consequences... corrupt backup data doesn't hurt until you need it for recovery. :) The likelihood of corrupt data on disk can be minimized by doing a "full backup" (rather than all incrementals) 4-12 times a year. This will refresh the data on disk and confirm (by lack of unrecoverable disk error) that the drive is functional. If you did incrementals only (obviously after first full backup) then confidence declines with time.

    I understand why there is a desire to use HDD as a backup medium - high capacity, fairly reliable, and cheap. It is better than no backup at all and good enough for most people.

    As I'm constantly reminded on dbstalk, I'm not most people. It's not good enough for me. I guess that is because I've had a career of seeing things go bad for no good reason when it could have been prevented easily with trivial effort and expense. In most cases the small incremental cost is worth it to me.
     
  2. Jul 1, 2012 #1902 of 2284
    Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    That's good enough for my uses. The really important stuff is on good quality DVDs and replaced every few years. Also, it's on 2-3 HDDs.

    Thanks for your input!

    Fred
     
  3. Myst

    Myst New Member

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    Jul 20, 2012
    I picked up the 2Tb EURS too. What enclosures would you guys recommend? It has to be able to handle a 2TB drive. Currently all I have here is a docking station and somehow I don't think that would be a good choice. LoL It's going to be nice to have all this space on my DVR when I finally hook it up.

    Myst
     
  4. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    The Thermaltake docking stations are my weapon of choice. You can also use the TT enclosure or the Antec MX-1 or the Rosewell enclosure. The only problem I've encountered with the TT docking stations are faulty on/off switches on the back of the dock. Leave them alone and just unplug the docking station when you have to and you shouldn't have any problems with dust or heat or noise. Most reliable way to mount an HDD on an HR, I think. And the cheapest.

    Rich
     
  5. Myst

    Myst New Member

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    Jul 20, 2012
    Hi Rich!
    I just happen to have a Thermaltake sitting right here next to me, so next question is what cable should I be using to connect this whole thing up? Thank you so very much for your input!
    Myst
    Nevermind lol I realized that I have the wrong Thermaltake for this purpose and now know what cable I need. I will have this put together by next week hopefully. Thanks for your feedback!
     
  6. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    Jul 13, 2007
    Heed Rich's advice! He's got tons of experience here. The enclosure simply needs an eSata connection port. Use an eSata cable, male to male. Most enclosures come with them. I've used both the Antec MX-1 and Rosewill RX-358(several versions available at Newegg)....mainly because they have fans. The Thermaltake doesn't need a fan, as the HDD is partially exposed.

    I like the Rosewill because (1) they work great (2) they have a usb 2.0 or usb 3.0 port in addition to the eSata....so can be used with multiple devices if you wish.(3) They are inexpensive (4) support from Rosewill is excellent. I'm using a couple as PC external enclosures and a couple with DVRs.. Never had a problem. It appears that Weaknees uses/ used these enclosures.

    The Thermaltake seems to have more adopters on this forum, and Rich knows it well. It works great,too. But the HDD is exposed to little fingers! No noise/ nofan!

    Fred
     
  7. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    And you don't need one tool to hook up a TT docking station. As easy as it is to put an HDD in an Antec MX-1, in the time it takes to put an HDD in one of them (never tried a Rosewell, but Fred likes them and I'd imagine it takes about as long to put an HDD in one of them as it does with an MX-1) you could put HDDs in a bunch of TT docking stations. I'm not mechanically challenged, but the TTs are so easy to install I doubt if I'd ever use an enclosure again.

    Rich
     
  8. Myst

    Myst New Member

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    Jul 20, 2012
    Ty Rich & Ty Fred for your feedback.
    Ever since I picked up my first TT docking station I fell in love with the ease of switching out my HDs. My only concern is dust dropping into them over time. Does that become an issue if you don't constantly keep it clean?
    I bought a new Thermaltake Muse enclosure for $20 off eBay yesterday and have a bid in on a Thermaltake ST0005U just for good measure. Can't hurt to have another docking station around here to go with all my hard drives sitting around. lol I need to start stacking them. It's starting to look like I'm running a business. Nope this is just my addiction....

    Myst
     
  9. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    This might sound strange, but the dust is of more concern in the enclosures, if it is a concern at all. Using the Antec MX-1 as an example, the first thing you'll notice when you take it apart is the relatively (to the size of the enclosure) large fan. Every MX-1 I've taken apart has been loaded with dust. Not so, with the docking stations, I've never seen dust accumulate on them and the exposed part is not "hot". All the MX-1s I've had have failed and all I use now are TT docking stations.

    The only problems I've had have been with the on/off buttons on the back. I've had two fail, one in the "on" position, which I'm still using (I just pull the cord if I have to reset it) and one with the switch in the "off" position. Nothing I could do with that one, took the thing apart and tried to jump the switch out, but couldn't and just threw it away. Now, if I have to reset any of the TT docking stations I pull the cord, there's obviously something wrong with the on/off switches.

    Keeping an extra docking station around allows you to use it as a troubleshooting device. All the external devices for HDDs seem to be the weakest links in the chain and sticking the extra docking station on an HR that you already have an external device on will quickly show you whether the external HDD or the external device is shot. Usually it's the device and not the HDD. This method also works with internal devices. If the TT and an HDD that you know is good work, the internal HDD is shot.

    Rich
     
  10. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    I agree with Rich that dust is no problem with either type enclosure. It's simple enough to blow of the dust. The only caveat with a TT dock is that the HDD is exposed. You are never supposed to touch the pcb board on a HDD. So a little care must be taken. And, when swapping drives, beware of static electricity, just as when installing a HDD into a computer.

    Fred
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    I should have made that clearer about the exposed part of the HDD when using the docks. I know not to touch the board, but the first concern I had was about the exposed part being "hot". P Smith assured me that was not the case and, while I never touch the exposed part of the board, I think he's right, it's not a shock hazard.

    Rich
     
  12. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    I didn't mean it was a shock hazard "being hot", but manufacturers continue to say not to touch it during installation. I think the possible static charge on the installer killing the HDD is the main reason.

    Fred
     
  13. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    At the time I got my first one, Sadie was ~ was around 2 or 3 years old and I was worried more about her touching one than anything else. All my docks are in places where kids can't get to them. More to protect the HDDs than kids or my dog.

    Rich
     
  14. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    Exactly. And when you think about it, the dock manufacturers wouldn't want the liability if the exposed part of the HDD was hot!

    Fred
     
  15. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I would add a couple cents to wave out the concern about static dischage damage to PCBA of 'naked' drive.
    It's practically impossible to hold the drive (during insertiong into TT type of a dock) to damage components - you will always have ground contacts while you're holding it - the metal box and top plate are the ground and you can't physically avoid touching these parts during moving the drive into TT.
     
  16. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    Jul 13, 2007
    I disagree on the grounding as many of these dock-style enclosures are totally plastic on the exterior. Until the metal contacts on the HDD touches the metal contacts inside the dock, it's very possible to have no ground.

    As to the probability of damage, I suspect that to be rather low in either case. If the warnings we have seen for years still apply, it's definitely possible for static discharge to damage an ungrounded, naked drive.

    Fred
     
  17. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    If you will know the SATA connectors has advanced contacts for ground wires, then your disagreement is pure verbal exercise. Read SATA connector design's drawings.
     
  18. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    Jul 13, 2007
    That is not what you were talking about when you said "you will always have ground contacts while you're holding it - the metal box and top plate are the ground and you can't physically avoid touching these parts during moving the drive into TT." Assumes the dock is connected. Assumes you don't discharge static electricity while holding the HDD before the connection is made.

    Fred
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    When you inserting the HDD into the dock (holding it by metal box and say your body do charged to 5000V static electricity) - closest SATA contacts to the drive are GND, by design.
    So, ESD will happen safe way. By design.
     
  20. Volman

    Volman Godfather

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    Jul 13, 2007
    I'm not talking about when the HDD is almost touching the dock (or as it is actually being inserted into the dock). Remember Murphy's Law. Not all folks who handle these drives are careful. You are assuming way too much. You are saying that the whole time you are handling the HDD, it's in close proximity to the dock.

    Maybe it's the semantics of the English language that's confusing the issue?

    Fred
     

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