Would this work?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by haggis444, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. haggis444

    haggis444 Legend

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    OK, so I was having a discussion (more like a disagreement) with a friend of mine (we are both network engineers). I was talking about DECA, signal loss, etc. I came up with this idea. I am 99% sure it will work as when I had HR2x units in the past I used ethernet networking for MRV, not IP over COAX (DECA).

    Now, I get this would not be supported by DirecTV, and I would be reliant on the ethernet switch to be functioning for my clients to work. But what are the pros/cons? Again, just a fun discussion I am not sure I have the energy to mess with my system that works perfectly fine as-is using all DECA and DirecTV supported networking and configuration.

    I know that the clients would be able to see the HS17 as all of my RVU enabled TVs that are only Ethernet connected can see the HS17. I will say I have not tried connecting them but I can't imagine DirecTV blocking client attach from Ethernet and not from the COAX/DECA. L2 filters are not very common even in high end ethernet switches.

    DirecTV Whatif.png

    PROs--I only have 1 ;): <--this is really the main I was hoping for input on.
    1. Signal strength for the HS17? Without any splitters would it be safe to assume the signal strength is higher? Question is would it even be noticeable, or even matter? Would it be enough to combat some rain fade?
    CONs:
    1. Not supported by DirecTV
    2. More parts to fail, add to complexity, points of troubleshooting. Basically more things to worry about
    3. DECA to ethernet bridges are 100Mbps Ethernet right? I honestly don't know as I don't have one plugged in right now. I have the gen 1 bridge and I think a gen 3 in my inventory.
      • I think with the C51 in my network I am probably running at 175Mbps (DECA 1.1), if I switch that C51 to a C61 then everything is DECA 2.0 (500Mbps). Not sure things would run that way.
      • Plus 100Mbps might be fine, I have no idea what a HD or 4K stream uses bandwith wise but 100Mbps is probably enough for now.
    4. The shade that is going to be thrown over me for even suggesting that on this forum. ;)
    Again, just having some fun, I am almost certain I will not even try this but wanted to get some thoughts to settle my bet.

    Thanks in advance for the input/thoughts!
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    you could find the info here, it's posted before
    also, you'll need count a sum of streams to all clients !
     
  3. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that will work fine, except for the power inserter (you need to supply power to the DECA, not the splitter) but won't be supported by Directv.

    If all clients are chugging away at once, including two 4K streams, you might have issues because the DECA will be a choke point. It is only 100Mb ethernet, and probably can't sustain full rate. Each 4K channel is 30Mbps or so. Once Directv introduces next generation DECAs that use MoCA 2.0 they'll have a gigabit interface and bandwidth will never be a concern.
     
  4. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Hs17 does giga on its Ethernet.. and it’s moca2. So are c61k clients...

    So you might run into issues if you are viewing 2 4k shows and 5 other hd1080 signals.. might...

    DIRECTV would not let you install this way from scratch. It actually checks for deca in clients, it won’t activate first time if it detects Ethernet between hs17 and clients.

    I hear the concern on signal loss...but.. you are discussing signal loss for satelites not the deca.. so... simple solution imho...

    From dish to a two way splitter... from splitter one line to hs17. (Power passing side) other line out of 2 way goes to 8 way.. you will have minimum loss of sat signal going to the hs17 this way and your deca loss really shouldn’t be any different than your proposal, if not even less... and you will not notice any sat signal difference between this and using your Ethernet switch scheme.

    Curios, how is your system with 8 clients wired today?
     
  5. haggis444

    haggis444 Legend

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    LNB to two way splitter, one leg to the HS17, other leg to a 8 way splitter. I think I am optimized from a splitter perspective. Again, the discussion was around how to 100% minimize signal loss. I am not going to implement this. Too much hassle for too little return IMHO.
     
  6. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    The HS17 and C61K are MoCA 2.0 capable, but we don't know if they are actually using MoCA 2.0 currently. Maybe they are, maybe it will require a future software update to enable it.
     
  7. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I am just not convinced that going to network and back isn’t more loss than using DIRECTV splitters as you have yours setup right now, because deca losses aren’t the same as sat losses in those splitters. There is more in those splitters specifically for deca signals to stay stronger.

    It would be an interesting test to see if it’s right or not. I’d love to see the results if you want to try and test the two some day! I’m just not even sure how you’d do the test.
     
  8. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Considering procedure is to only allow no more than 5 moca 1 clients, and that the last 2 (or 3 technically) clients connected to a hs17 system must be moca2 I am guessing it’s already implemented.
     
  9. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    would be using spectrum analyzer to coax side of DECA sufficient to know ?
     
  10. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    There's not only no loss in going from DECA to network and back, it undoes the DECA loss from the first DECA segment so you start back at full strength in the second DECA segment.
     
  11. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but I'm not sure anyone here has access to one. If they did we could have answered other questions that perplexed us in the past a lot easier...
     
  12. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    someone has a couple ;), but no DECA is here to check :(
     
  13. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    What’s the loss going back in? Honestly I think the difference in a real test would be close to negligible...
     
  14. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    All Directv receivers and DECAs output at full strength, and then incur their losses through coax runs and splitters, and if there's not enough signal left for a receiver then you have problems. If you send a leg of the connection through a pair of DECAs with an ethernet segment (don't even need a switch, a crossover coupler to connect the ethernet pigtails between the two would work) you effectively 'regenerate' the DECA signal back to full strength. That would be useful if say you had one or two receivers that were a long distance and you'd violate the length rules in that spreadsheet VOS made a few years ago. Basically this is how you would create the "DECA amplifier" he had talked about building.

    Now in the specific situation of this install, I think what the TS is hypothetically doing in the diagram is dumb, but he didn't ask "is this dumb?" he asked "would it work?" Obviously it would be smarter to connect the HS17 through a diplexer's input, and connect the SAT leg of the diplexer to the dish and the other leg to the 8 way splitter's output, leaving off the DECAs and ethernet switch. That wouldn't be supported by Directv either. A supported solution would probably have a two way splitter hanging off one of the 8 way's outputs for the two clients with the shortest runs, or one client would be wireless to avoid needing more than the 8 way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  15. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Small point here ...

    But like with hubs, aren't ethernet crossovers obsolete now as any ethernet interface today is auto-sensing for determining transmit and receive pairs for fast ethernet?



    Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
     
  16. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    It could or could not. Connect and check first.
     

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