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Would you vote for Arnold?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Strong, Oct 4, 2003.

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  1. waydwolf

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    As to Arnold's Nazi comments... Who in politics doesn't admite Hitler's ability to galvanize so many so easily? But they and their critics miss several points.

    1. INDIGNITY: Germany has ALWAYS had an egomania problem and their defeat after WWI was like forcing a devout Muslim to eat pork at gunpoint. They stewed in self-pity and it was just waiting for someone to give it a focus to pile the hate on.

    2. SCAPEGOAT: Germany has ALWAYS had an anti-semitism problem, much of it dating from the early part of the second millenium and growing from then on. It seems mostly the sort of nonsense that we saw in South Africa before apartheid and what we see in America today. Hard working immigrants from places where such work ethics are necessary for survival doing well when transplanted to a place of opportunity and the native population grown a little laid back and in denial about why they're not doing as well. Instant resentment, hate, bigotry. Combine this with a people in religious/spirtual flux ever since their conversion from paganism to Christianity and you've got fertile ground for deep rooted irrational systematic hate with a mantle of mysticism.

    3. NATURE: Humans will ALWAYS be easier to whip into a mob when they are angry and resentful, as opposed to a common good goal. Which is better, an orgasm or gunshot? Of course the orgasm is better. But will people form mobs to get sex and pleasure? No, they form mobs to pick up guns and shoot at each other and make each other miserable. Sad thing, but its the nature of humans to be more easily moved to bad things than good.

    Hitler took advantage of the good fortune of having all of the above line up in a social conjunction of the sort hardly ever seen all at once in one place. With it, we ended up with the history we know today. So what if people wish they could get support like that? It's an impossible wish for anyone who isn't a dedicated evil s.o.b.. Doesn't mean they're anti-semites. Heck, both of the major factions in Israel wish they could get everyone in the nation on the same page that way, but it isn't going to happen.

    As to groping, let's be serious about who is calling the accusations and making the noise. If Arnold was accused of groping other men's equipment at the gym, the same press would be celebrating and congratulating him for his brave lifestyle choice and he'd be the Ellen DeGeneris of the male celebrities. The press practically wants there to be graphic hardcore sex on Queer As Folk the way they talk glowingly about homosexuality.

    Being proudly hetero and acting on it gets him excoriated by the usual suspects. But it's a glaring hypocrisy so bad that even Estrich isn't jumping in on the group-think gang stomp.

    A vote for McClintock is a vote for Davis at this point and Arnold is the best the Republicans can get. Bustamante is an out and out anti-white(and everyone else) Latino racist, Davis is a patronizing lefty, and McClintock is about as galvanizing as Ruth Buzzy in a half slip. If this were CA, I'd vote Arnold. I'd vote him over the current Republican governor here.
     
  2. Geronimo

    Geronimo Native American Potentate DBSTalk Gold Club

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    How is a vote for McClintodk a vote for Davis? The recall itself isa separate iballot item. If you had said a vote for Butamante it might have made sense. But voting for MzClintock does not help Davis at all. He stands or falls based on ehat happens on the recall question itself. How badly the Republican vote id fractured on the other question is meaningless.
     
  3. mainedish

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    I would vote for him. Davis is a wimp. Arnold is a man. One reason is because the democrats now say that what you do in your personal life matters. Oh brother. Bill Clinton ring a bell?This makes me sick. You democrats can't have it both ways. I hate politics . And I hate democrats for the reason I have listed. Davis saying Arnold has committed crimes? The so called dirt they have on Arnold is nothing. My wife would like to know why these women waited so long to talk about this stuff? And Clinton gets a pass on what he did but Arnold has to pay for his past? Do any of you think that a republican would have survived if he did what Clinton did while in office? I hate double standards and thats what we have here.
     
  4. Mark Holtz

    Mark Holtz Day Sleeper DBSTalk Club

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    The vote for Davis and the vote for his replacement are two seperate issues.

    The worry by the California Republicans is that McClintock would siphon off enough votes so that Bustimante, whose proposed policies are WORSE than Davis, would win the election. It's called splitting the vote. There is also the possibility of Camejo siphoning off some votes from Bustimante.

    In earlier polls (and please don't hold me to these figures), it appeared that Bustimante was leading at around 30%, Arnold at around 25%, and McClintock at around 12%. If McClintock dropped out, then Arnold would have theoredically won with 37% of the vote verses Bustimante's 30%.

    Now, the poll standing look like this according to a Knight Ridder/NBC News poll released Saturday night (published through Montery County Herald):

    Recall Davis:
    Yes - 54%
    No - 41%
    Undecided - 5%
    (67% of the people polled of Davis' performance as governor)

    Governor:
    Arnold (R) - 37%
    Bustimante (D) - 29%
    McClintock (R) - 15%
    Camejo (Green) - 3%

    Margin of error: 3.2%

    - 11 percent of Californians did not know they could vote no on the recall and still choose a replacement candidate.
    - Latino voters polled showed that they opposed the recall, but 21 percent didn't know they could vote no and still choose a replacement candidate.

    But, like I said, the only vote that counts is the vote on Tuesday. As far as programming schedule goes in Sacramento:

    KCRA 3 (NBC) - Wall to Wall Coverage.
    KVIE 6 (PBS) - Normal programming. This is not a news station.
    KXTV 10 (ABC) - News coverage until 8 PM, 8 Simple Rules 8-8:30 PM, News coverage resumes at 8:30 PM.
    KOVR 13 (CBS) - Normal programming scheduled.
    KUVS 19 (Univision) - Normal programming scheduled.
    KMAX 31 (UPN) - Normal programming. This is not a news station.
    KTXL 40 (FOX) - Baseball playoffs at 5 PM, followed by Sitcoms that normally air at 5-8 PM. The only newscast is at 10 PM.
    KQCA 58 (WB) - Normal programming. News broadcast provided by KCRA 3.

    As for the nationals:
    CNN - Recall coverage starts at 8 PM PT.
    MSNBC - Election Coverage.
    Fox News - Election Analysis 8-9 PM, but I suspect more programming.
     
  5. Halfsek

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    Funny.
    First you say he stands for nothing republican.
    Then you read his website full of specifics, yet you then say that he doesn't really believe them.

    What has he done or not done in the past for you to believe that what's on his site is BS?

    But look at his success. Would any of us be able to do what he did?
    As a very young man, he came to a foreign country which wasn't even his native language.
    He excelleed in his chosen profession and received a degree in business (either here or abroad, I don't remember).
    He then went into another highly competitive business- acting. He had an angle others didn't at the time- muscles and a cool accent.

    He soon became a huge action star. Then he moved his way into comedy. He's a successful businessman on the side. He then slowly got into the political arena with his little pet project and his backing of 187 (denying services to illegal aliens).

    To me, he has shown that he's able to succeed at what he sets out to do.

    To be fair though, I asked you a question (which you really haven't answered), but I have yet to answer yours.

    I feel that head to head, McClintock is the candidate with whom I agree with more.
    But, the question (to me), is who will be the best for California in addition to me being happy with him.
    And that person is Arnold.

    Economically, I like his policies. I don't like the fact that he seems open to starting even more programs. But he's going to be in office for a short time and the #1 priority is the budget. So I don't think he'll be starting anything new.

    His star power is very important though. It's with this power that I think he'll be able to bully our whacked out extreme left wing legislature. As much as I think McClintock is great, he won't be able to bully our legislature. The media will be clamoring to want to hear what the "Governator" (or whatever other nickname he gets) wants to say.

    And that's the important part to me.

    Just off the top of my head; the bills recently passed or proposed by our legislature:
    Tripling car tax
    License to illegals
    Free Junior College for illegals
    Having all businesses with 20+ employees pay health insurance- either directly to the employee or a state pool (yeah, state controlled money, what a joke).
    Any number of environmental laws.

    All I have to say is that California proves what happens when you have a liberal legislature and a liberal Governor.
     
  6. RichW

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    Arnold would be my FIRST choice of all the candidates. I would like to see him win for several reasons. First he is liberal enough to form coalitions with democrats to work out the tough situation Califronia is in. Secondly, it would be nice for a person who has waged a relatively clean campaign to be able ot win. Third, regarding his mis-steps in the past, He admitted as much (albeit only after press scrutiny) and could show, like Clinton did, that the mud slingng is ineffective.

    My biggest worry is that Californians are placing TOO MUCH faith in him and when he starts doing his job as governor, some may become disillusioned that he can't perform miracles. He WILL institute addtional taxes. He is even saying so now. But many people still believe that somehow he will be able to solve the crisis magically without more state income. He can't. I hope his charisma will carry him through the rough times he will face as Gov.
     
  7. Mark Holtz

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    :flaiming :grrr: :soapbox: :rant: :new_cussi
    (I think you get the general idea)

    The only part you forgot was the $7 increase in student fees in the junior colleges that was made retroactively effective at the beginning of the semister.

    And, don't forget, the legislators drew the district lines so that their seats are relatively safe.
     
  8. Halfsek

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    I remember back in my junior college days (-89-'92).
    It was $19.00 a quarter, and that's it.
    Now it's what? $20.00/ unit?

    And back in my mom's days. The JC was free! Even for a legal immigrant like her.

    Ohhhhhh, I get it now. They can't do that sort of thing in Texas, but it's okay in Californiah, right? ;)
     
  9. Halfsek

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    Good point. We all should be expecting him to not be able to do much. I don't know where the separation of power is between the governor and legislature. I'm sure Arnold or McClintock could do any sort of research/ investigations they want, but when it comes to passes laws and making cuts, that's a different story.

    If my understanding is correct, the California governor has the power for the line item veto. Just that will make a pretty good difference if Arnold or McClintock were in power as opposed to Davis or Bustamante.

    He will not be able to solve it in his first term. But, if we see the deficit go substantially down from 38 billion, it'll be a good start.
     
  10. RichW

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    "The only part you forgot was the $7 increase in student fees in the junior colleges that was made retroactively effective at the beginning of the semister."

    Gee only 7 bucks? Our college students here faced a 40% increase in tutition and fees. It has little to do with partisan politics, a lot to do with the crappy economy.
     
  11. Halfsek

    Halfsek Hall Of Fame

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    Well, to be fair, we have to know the starting point of fees.
     
  12. Bogy

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    This has traditionally been done once every ten years, when the official census has been released. Texas already redrew their boundary lines two years ago, and now Texas Republicans want to do it again, after only two years.
     
  13. Geronimo

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    Mark Holtz wrote

    The vote for Davis and the vote for his replacement are two seperate issues.

    The worry by the California Republicans is that McClintock would siphon off enough votes so that Bustimante, whose proposed policies are WORSE than Davis, would win the election. It's called splitting the vote. There is also the possibility of Camejo siphoning off some votes from Bustimante.





    Exactly. That was my point. We are saying the same thing. That is why I did not understand it when the other poster said a vote for MCClintock helps Davis.
     
  14. Mark Holtz

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    The original proposal was to increase the per unit fee from $11 to $24 per unit. Granted, $18 a unit is still not bad, but it took effect this semister. So, you paid in May? So, sorry, must pay the difference.

    And, that additional $7 isn't going to the community colleges, it's going back to the state. But, it's not a "tax", it's a "fee increase". Sounds like a tax to me.

    Mind you, when the budget fiasco started in July, there were questions about what is going to happen because, without a budget, no funds flow to the college districts. Los Rios had a fiscal reserve, and, with some delayed payments, could run for six months. Sierra College in Rocklin and Yuba City College was in more dire fiscal straits.

    The California state deficit is larger than many states budgets. A lot of it was due to fiscal mis-management. The legislators took money which they knew were probably one-time windfalls, and instead implemented new programs that now require funding.
     
  15. Bogy

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    And this is different than other states during the flush years how? Most states I am familiar with did the same thing.
     
  16. HTguy

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    If you believe the polls Ahnold has a good chance of being my next governor.

    I'm a fan. I admire him a lot for what he's accomplished and I've liked his movies, for the most part, since his 1st one (Stay Hungry). I think he's personable, affable & sometimes even witty. I like him a lot. I like him better than Davis or any of the other candidates.

    But I'm not voting for him on Tuesday. I have enough brain cells to be able to distinguish between whom I happen to like personally and who would make a good governor (or whatever.)

    Unfortunately, elections usually come down to popularity contests because most people are not capable of making such distinctions.
     
  17. RichW

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    "The original proposal was to increase the per unit fee from $11 to $24 per unit. Granted, $18 a unit is still not bad, but it took effect this semister. So, you paid in May? So, sorry, must pay the difference."

    Yes, you realize that $24 per credit hour is a real bargain (for California residents). It is my understanding that you don't pay any other tutition, so it is a great social welfare program you have there in California! :)

    In Oregon, the typical in-district tuition-and-fee is around $65 per unit. In-state, out-of-district is about 10 bucks more per credit. The out-of-state- cost is about $205 per credit.

    Considering that both the average pre-tax and net income per household is higher in California than in Oregon. California taxpayers support its Community Colleges far better than we do. In fact it's a better deal for students than most other states.

    I don't understand how California community college students could be socially conservative when they are the direct beneficiaries of one of the largest (and best, IMHO) social programs in that state.

    "The legislators took money which they knew were probably one-time windfalls, and instead implemented new programs that now require funding"

    As they did long ago for the community college system.

    So now the state cannot pay for these programs with existing revenue. Why not require students to pay more and to give means-tested grants-in-aid to those who can't afford the higher fees?
     
  18. Richard King

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    http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~24781~1676763,00.html

     
  19. Chris Blount

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  20. Mark Holtz

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    It depends on the context, RichW. And, yes, there is a hefty surcharge for non-resident students.

    I think I brought this issue up a few months ago in this forum when this fee was first proposed at $24. Essentially, I said that $24 per unit was still cheap in comparison to other states. However, the overall cost of living (namely rent and insurance) is much higher than in other states. Even at $11 per unit, there are students who are there for only 3-4 weeks, then disappear. There are no statistics run as to WHY these students drop out. Still, it bad when you are paying for a rate hike, and none of the hike goes to the college districts.

    What also is contributing to the state's massive deficit was the energy crisis of 2001. During that time, the State of California, through the Department of Water Resources and with the blessing of Joe Davis, signed long-term energy contracts at vastly inflated prices--a very bad move. Now, the state is forced to purchase the electricity at those high rates and resell it for pennies on the dollar. In August, 2000, the California Republicans, based upon the rate jump in San Diego Edision, wanted to lock in some contracts at the low rates, but the governor and the state Democrats simply slammed the door on them. In addition, during this energy crisis, several new electrical plants went on-line, and most of them is powered by natural gas. There are predictions that there will be a natural gas shortage this winter. Oops.

    So, no Rich, it's not just the tuition fees. There are a whole slew of issues that I have against Grey Davis as governor. But, I expressed them in one of the accessable means possible, and that is the ballot box. It bothers me that people complain about the state of government, but do not bother to vote. I am not one of those people.
     
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