[Bowlin]

OK, first, if this has been covered elsewhere, I'll apologize in advance, ask for a dope-slap :grin: and a link to the appropriate thread. However, I did search and didn't find anything exactly on point for any of these questions.

I called Dish Tech Support and I got conflicting answers (if you can imagine that), so I'm trying here.

I'm a v-e-r-y long time Dish customer and I'm considering my first foray into HD. I understand the basics, but am by no means an expert. I do have a technical background, though, so I at least stand a chance of understanding.

My need is for a single 2-tuner DVR driving only one HD TV. I want to get the best possible DVR. (All satellite; no OTA.) I'm starting from scratch as I currently have no HD equipment of any type.

1. Can these DVR's simultaneously record two HD programs? (Dish said, "probably, but you'll have to try it.") Can they record two HD programs at the same time and playback one HD program? That's a pretty high total bandwidth requirement with up to 2 HD streams going to the disk and one coming off, all at the same time. I can see where it might not work well.

2. I understand that the 622 and 722 can be configured for just a single HD TV, with no second SD TV in another room, but is that as "clean" as the 612, designed solely for a single HD TV? ...or does it get messy trying to keep track of TV1 and TV2 timers or something else?

3. With the 622 and 722, there is an IR-only remote intended for the primary location and a UHF remote intended for the secondary location. With me just having one room, one TV, can I configure things to use the UHF remote as my only remote? (Dish said something about having to use an IR repeater or something...) I simply don't want to have to point the remote at the receiver, nor to buy other stuff.

4. Other than 2-TV support vs. 1 TV only, and hard disk size, is there any meaningful difference between the 612, 622 and 722?

5. How stable are these receivers? Dish has forever had a problem (OK, along with the rest of the entire universe) of releasing stuff before it's ready. I have an early 721 and really got tired of having to reboot it once or more per day just to be able to use it. After a year or more they finally worked most of the bugs out and I have become quite happy with it. If these things aren't really ready for general use yet, I'll wait until they stabilize.

6. I have legacy dishes (Dish 500 at 110/119 and a Dish 300 at 141) feeding an old SW64. Is this compatible, or will I need new stuff? (Existing outlets/locations are sufficient. I already have 2 feeds to my 721 and would replace it with the new DVR.)

7. 1080p question: I understand that resolution and scan rates are a 4-way problem: source programming, transmission, reception and display. However, the receivers seem to talk only about 1080i outputs. If/when Dish offers 1080p programming (I guess they're starting to offer some VoD in 1080p.), will these receivers output true 1080p, or is it converted to 1080i output to the TV? (Assume any connection type that'll best get the job done, presumably HDMI.)

Thanks for all the help. I've enjoyed monitoring the excellent info here for years, but have only posted a few times.

 

[Ron Barry]

1. Yes, Yes. Actually if you have OTA they can record 3 streams and play one from the HD.
2. Yes it is and you get the added benefit of Side by Side viewing and PIP. This comes in real handy when watching two things at the same time.
3. Yes you can.
4. PIP functionality would be at the top.
5. I have both and both boxes (612/722) have reached the stability curve in my opinion. The 722/622 have been out longer. Ofcourse mileage varies with this questions and hard to say given your specific installation and use cases.
6. Leave it to the hardware guys.
7. Hard to say what the future holds, but based on the fact it can do 1080p for VOD the box appears to be able to support it. Question I would have would could it do such a thing and record 3 streams at once. My personally opinion is 1080p across the board on a DVR is a long way off.

 

[phrelin]

OK, first, if this has been covered elsewhere, I'll apologize in advance, ask for a dope-slap :grin: and a link to the appropriate thread. However, I did search and didn't find anything...

I called Dish Tech Support and I got conflicting answers (if you can imagine that), so I'm trying here.

I'm a v-e-r-y long time Dish customer and I'm considering my first foray into HD. I understand the basics, but am by no means an expert. I do have a technical background, though, so I at least stand a chance of understanding.

My need is for a single 2-tuner DVR driving only one HD TV. I want to get the best possible DVR. (All satellite; no OTA.) I'm starting from scratch as I currently have no HD equipment of any type.

1. Can these DVR's simultaneously record two HD programs? (Dish said, "probably, but you'll have to try it.") Can they record two HD programs at the same time and playback one HD program? That's a pretty high total bandwidth requirement with up to 2 HD streams going to the disk and one coming off, all at the same time. I can see where it might not work well.

The short answer is "yes."

2. I understand that the 622 and 722 can be configured for just a single HD TV, with no second SD TV in another room, but is that as "clean" as the 612, designed solely for a single HD TV? ...or does it get messy trying to keep track of TV1 and TV2 timers or something else?

I have both a 722 in single mode and a 612. The operate essentially as twins.

3. With the 622 and 722, there is an IR-only remote intended for the primary location and a UHF remote intended for the secondary location. With me just having one room, one TV, can I configure things to use the UHF remote as my only remote? (Dish said something about having to use an IR repeater or something...) I simply don't want to have to point the remote at the receiver, nor to buy other stuff.

I use both TV1 HD outs with the HDMI going to a second TV in our office. The UHF remote works fine for TV1.

4. Other than 2-TV support vs. 1 TV only, and hard disk size, is there any meaningful difference between the 612, 622 and 722?

Yes. They seem to have different "glitches" so look around and see which of the current problems you'd like to risk having. Other than that, for example the 612 right now has a software feature that allows you to use "folders" on your External Hard Drive. I expect to see the 622/722 to get that..."soon"...hopefully, when they fix the major audio dropout problem some of us in certain regions are having (gripe, gripe).

5. How stable are these receivers? Dish has forever had a problem (OK, along with the rest of the entire universe) of releasing stuff before it's ready. I have an early 721 and really got tired of having to reboot it once or more per day just to be able to use it. After a year or more they finally worked most of the bugs out and I have become quite happy with it. If these things aren't really ready for general use yet, I'll wait until they stabilize.

I don't even know how to answer this as stable enough for me may not be stable enough for you. When I got my 722 last September, it was working well. Sometime around this past spring or summer, they screwed it up with new software releases. With that said, most people are finding the 722 to be reasonably stable. The 612 is a newer model and had some problems when it was released. Right now, I'd say my 612 is as good as my 722 but both have their problems. Also, I have almost no problems with HDNet and UniversalHD, two HD channels that were intent on delivering quality HD when HD started. I have some problems with HD cable channels, more with some cable channels than others. I have alot of problems with the four local HD channels. The issues with locals varies. I haven't seen many complaints coming from New York City customers, for instance.

6. I have legacy dishes (Dish 500 at 110/119 and a Dish 300 at 141) feeding an old SW64. Is this compatible, or will I need new stuff? (Existing outlets/locations are sufficient. I already have 2 feeds to my 721 and would replace it with the new DVR.)

You will need a dish aimed at either 129° or 61.5° depending on where you are located. That will require an equipment change (did you mean 141 as I'm not aware of that satellite?). There are folks here that can discuss this better than I.

7. 1080p question: I understand that resolution and scan rates are a 4-way problem: source programming, transmission, reception and display. However, the receivers seem to talk only about 1080i outputs. If/when Dish offers 1080p programming (I guess they're starting to offer some VoD in 1080p.), will these receivers output true 1080p, or is it converted to 1080i output to the TV? (Assume any connection type that'll best get the job done, presumably HDMI.)

Right now 1080p is only offered for a very few VOD movies. These are downloaded to your DVR hard drive by Dish from the satellite during the overnight update and are there for you to "rent." The 1080p output is totally software controlled as it even checks to see if your TV can handle 1080p/24. There have been the usual roll-out problems with this. Right now there are no channels offering 1080p as the bandwidth requirements are significant. And frankly, there are enough technical problems delivering a 1080i or 720p.

Thanks for all the help. I've enjoyed monitoring the excellent info here for years, but have only posted a few times.

I feel like I need to add a few impressions. HD is an improvement almost as significant as it was in the late 50's going from b/w to color. Similar transition issues are occuring, but we've got the added complications from multiple delivery systems for the digital signal (everything was broadcast OTA as analog with a single standard back then) and from DVR systems which tend to compound and add to quality problems. If you wait to get HD you will miss out on some excellent visual (and audio) experiences. But you will also miss out on some frustrations with technology.

It's hard to tell anyone to just dive in. If you have a 92-year-old person in your household who just wants to watch their shows during the day without problems, HD is a bad choice. If you are a 25-year-old computer nut, what on Earth were you waiting for? I'm an old guy with a wife who is also old, but we started a computer services business in 1980 with Tandy Model II's. We waited until the 722 came out only because our "theater" decor requires black colored boxes. But we bought a 42" Panasonic plasma in 2003 to watch DVD's on. Everyone is different.

 

[Bowlin]

1. Yes, Yes. Actually if you have OTA they can record 3 streams and play one from the HD.
2. Yes it is and you get the added benefit of Side by Side viewing and PIP. This comes in real handy when watching two things at the same time.
3. Yes you can.
4. PIP functionality would be at the top.
5. I have both and both boxes (612/722) have reached the stability curve in my opinion. The 722/622 have been out longer. Ofcourse mileage varies with this questions and hard to say given your specific installation and use cases.
6. Leave it to the hardware guys.
7. Hard to say what the future holds, but based on the fact it can do 1080p for VOD the box appears to be able to support it. Question I would have would could it do such a thing and record 3 streams at once. My personally opinion is 1080p across the board on a DVR is a long way off.

Thanks, Ron.

In your #2 and #4 you seem to say that perhaps the 612 can't do side-by-side or PIP. But, it's a 2-tuner box, so that surprises me. Really?

 

[Ron Barry]

Yes Really.. It does not support PIP/Side by Side & what people commonly call Dual Live Buffering. (Read you cannot swap tuners)

My personal advice is that if you are a sport guy.. This feature is big. If you are a power user you may find this feature really useful. If you are the type that watching one recorded or live thing at a given time then you might not find the PIP/Side-by-Side/DLB feature of much use.

The 612 is a nice box and does a good job, but if I had my choice and there was not a huge price difference, the 722 would be my preference. I find the PIP feature really useful.

 

[Bowlin]

Yes Really.. It does not support PIP/Side by Side & what people commonly call Dual Live Buffering. (Read you cannot swap tuners)

My personal advice is that if you are a sport guy.. This feature is big. If you are a power user you may find this feature really useful. If you are the type that watching one recorded or live thing at a given time then you might not find the PIP/Side-by-Side/DLB feature of much use.

The 612 is a nice box and does a good job, but if I had my choice and there was not a huge price difference, the 722 would be my preference. I find the PIP feature really useful.

Again, thanks, Ron. I believe you, of course, but it's certainly strange that a two tuner receiver wouldn't offer PiP. I even have it on my 721, although, not being too much of a "sports guy" I seldom use it.

That said, I don't yet know the price difference for me between a 612 and 722. I'd reached the same conclusion that unless there's a really big difference, the 722 is the better choice.

Dish is forcing me out of my 721. I just today won the battle (had to go to ceo-at-echostar...) not to have to pay the monthly DVR fee for the "free" transition out of the 721. Now, I have to decide if I want to just stick with the 522 they're offering or try to up the ante all the way to HD. I'm inclined to go to HD (receivers seem stable enough for my purposes), but I'm not sure I'm ready to spend the thousands necessary for everything else right now, especially given the anvil-like trajectory of the economy.

 

[puckwithahalo]

Dish is forcing me out of my 721. I just today won the battle (had to go to ceo-at-echostar...) not to have to pay the monthly DVR fee for the "free" transition out of the 721.

The dvr fee is automatically waived if you do the free upgrade as well as the programming access fee.

 

[reddice]

Dish will not lease a ViP DVR for one TV (622,722) except for the 612. I upgraded to a 612. I wanted a 722 but they said that I would have to install the second tuner on my grandmothers TV. That kind of defeats the purpose of two tuners since she watches different programs than I watch. Although duel buffering would have been good but I am use to working with one buffering tuner with the 510. I still like my 612 with the ability to record two programs at the same time now that the fall season has started and I can also watch a program while one records.

 

[phrelin]

Dish will not lease a ViP DVR for one TV (622,722) except for the 612.

I think there are many who have a 622 or 722 hooked up to one TV as far as Dish knows. That's why they have a single mode that disables the TV2 output/remote function.

 

[Bowlin]

The dvr fee is automatically waived if you do the free upgrade as well as the programming access fee.

Yeeeaaahhhh... to some value of "automatically." I went through 2 reps on the line specifically intended to dispose of my 721, 2 general CSRs and 2 Tech Support reps (one was second-level) and ALL of them said that I'd have to pay the monthly DVR fee.

Only when I sent a note to CEO-at-Echostar did they come back and say they'd waive the DVR fee.

What "programming access fee" are you talking about. That's a new one on me.

 

[Cold Irons]

I have a 622 and a 722, both leased & both hooked up to only one TV - would never do it any other way. I want the 2 (for me 3) tuners available all the time.

I'd always vote for the 722/622 over the 612 just for the PIP & dual buffering - I use it all the time.

 

[E91]

I think there are many who have a 622 or 722 hooked up to one TV as far as Dish knows. That's why they have a single mode that disables the TV2 output/remote function.

Probably, but it is hard to get a DISH CSR to understand this. WHen you call up about a 722, they have no idea why you might want to hook one up to a single set.

 

[E91]

Dish will not lease a ViP DVR for one TV (622,722) except for the 612. I upgraded to a 612. I wanted a 722 but they said that I would have to install the second tuner on my grandmothers TV. That kind of defeats the purpose of two tuners since she watches different programs than I watch. Although duel buffering would have been good but I am use to working with one buffering tuner with the 510. I still like my 612 with the ability to record two programs at the same time now that the fall season has started and I can also watch a program while one records.

Not true. I just leased a VIP722 for use with one set last week.

 

[reddice]

But I have three other TV's hooked up to a 510 receivers so they will only lease one more tuner. The 612 counts as one tuner. They said that I would have to get rid of one of the 510's to hook up the second tuner which is stupid and defeats the purpose of having one TV receiver with two tuners.

 

[puckwithahalo]

But I have three other TV's hooked up to a 510 receivers so they will only lease one more tuner. The 612 counts as one tuner. They said that I would have to get rid of one of the 510's to hook up the second tuner which is stupid and defeats the purpose of having one TV receiver with two tuners.

It just means you reached the max number of leased tuners, not that they won't let you use it for just 1 tv.

 

[ZBoomer]

Dish will not lease a ViP DVR for one TV (622,722) except for the 612. I upgraded to a 612. I wanted a 722 but they said that I would have to install the second tuner on my grandmothers TV.

Agree with what a few others said; I just added a 722 to my stable, and specifically told them I wanted it for a single TV. My current 622 is also driving a single TV.

I tried using a 622 for me and my wife at same time, and it didn't work well. All the time stuff I'd have set to record would start recording on her tuner, pissing her off, etc. :nono:

The CSR did ask if I wanted a 612, but I said I specifically wanted a 722, to get the PIP, split screen, etc. A 722 running in single mode is as good as it gets.

I think the reason you got the wrong answer was the issue with leased tuners?

 

[dishrox]

I was about to post a similar question and found this thread. Got lot of nice info. Here is my situation:
I currently enjoy (a lot!) a 625 in dual mode. Been a year. Now moving to HD. So I call up and ask to be upgraded to HD programing. She offers me 612 at no cost and 622 for $50. She tells me 612 does not allow me to watch one program and record another. Not doing basic research, I say ok .. 625 and pay $50.

Now today I find out that 612 is dual tuner. So I call up and another tech says the earlier one was mistaken and 612 is dual tuner and will support OTA as well and says they will offer me bill credit or refund if I choose to go to 612. Esp. since i did not have my unit setup yet, it was easy.

I will be using only my new HDTV going forward. I do not use PIP at all and have been using 625 in dual mode since one year. I always switch off my tuners when I am not using them so I don't use the dual buffer (term that I came to know about after being in this forum).

All I want to do is to be able to record two programs at once and watch one recorded. After being in this forum for one day, I now know about OTA with dish receiver. (Cool forum .. where was I lost all these days!!).

So, with 612 can I:
1. Record one program while simultaneously watching another live one
2. Record two programs while simultaneously watching recorded one
3. With antenna connected, record three programs while simultaneously watching recorded one
4. With antenna connected, record two programs while simultaneously watching OTA channel
5. Connect HDMI to my HDTV and connect regular TV out to another SDTV in another room and watch programming on SDTV? Of course same will ply on HDTV since its the same output. I will be using only one TV at any given time, so just want to know if it is possible at all ... and will HD programs be down converted
6. Does remote work in UHF mode
7. 612 supports 1080p?
8. external disk - what disk can be used? any extra fee for EHD?

Thanks for the answers and love the forum!

 

[djlong]

I've had a pair of 612s for a couple of weeks now so I'll take your questions in order..

1 - Yes, you can record one program while watching a live one.
2 - Yes, you can record two programs wile watching a recorded one.
3 - I've heard you can do this but my antenna needs work for me to receive OTA digital.
4 - I've heard people watching OTA while recording two *satellite* programs.
5 - A recent post said that all outputs on a 612 are 'hot' at all times so you *should* be able to run a wire carrying an SD 'mirror' of what the HDMI is carrying.
6 - Both of my 612 remotes are in UHF mode. the installer left them that way but you can change that.
7 - I'm told that the max resolution for a 612 *right now* is 1080i - but I'm not sure how well that jibes with the 1080p 'PPV' events.
8 - I just hooked up a 1TB Western Digital MyBook Essentials drive that I got on sale at Best Buy for $120 (minus some Rewards Points certificates). I called Dish to activate the EHD feature and they are adding a one-time $39.99 charge to my next bill. Now, according to others here, this should mean that BOTH of my receivers can now have an external drive hooked up and I *shoould* be able to move the drive from one receiver to the other.

I also just hooked up my main 612 to the internet, running ethernet form my router to the port in back. So far, there's not much "DISH Online" programming that is appealing (certainly not at the prices they want) but it does open up a lot of possibilities.

 

[dishrox]

Thanks djlong. That gives me a lot of answers. I will call them up and ask for my $50 back or use it to activate my EHD later. I guess 1080p is the only question I stil need to ask them about.

 

[zedug]

Yes the 612 supports 1080P24 output for 1080P24 content (there's no upsampling capability at this point).

When starting playing a 1080P24 content (the "HD PPV" events) the box will first test your TV's display capability. If your monitor supports 1080P24 then the 612 will send it out, if not it will fall back to whatever resolution your screen supports.