[I.M. Nobody]

I have 2 HR20s and have had no problems to speak of. I have had them for over 5 weeks with no problems but now they are starting to have the problems most of you are having.

I leave them both on 24/7. On Monday night I recorded Jay Leno Mpeg4 When I went to play it on tuesday It would freeze the screen of the live program and not play. When I tried to exit or delete it would turn to a white screen and do nothing. The only way I could get back to the screen was to push the red button. Then it would reset every thing.

Now when I turn on the Tv on the other box I get no Picture. I tried everything But no good. I have to do a reset to get it to work again.

I think it's about time to break out the old HR10s again they might be slow but they always worked. I'm starting to think I should have waited a few months before i jumped in.

As they say when your on the cutting edge of technology your the first to bleed

 

[Mixer]

If I could have gotten an HR10-250 I would have taken it in an instant. Yes I know that the future for D* is to fully support the HR20 and make it the best HD DVR but I still would have taken the Tivo Based unit.

I am guessing a lot of people would have too. I have high hopes for the HR20 I just don't think we are going to see it's potential for a while.

 

[Earl Bonovich]

Don't jump yet. Wait for the next software release, to see if it resolves your current issues. If things go according to the most recent information, you won't have to wait long to see if it corrects your issues.

 

[Twosted]

Don't jump yet. Wait for the next software release, to see if it resolves your current issues. If things go according to the most recent information, you won't have to wait long to see if it corrects your issues.

Does that mean an update tonight Earl? I have seen your "soon " and "wait long" posts before and they are usually followed by an update.

 

[Earl Bonovich]

Does that mean an update tonight Earl? I have seen your "soon " and "wait long" posts before and they are usually followed by an update.

Yah... I have used that terminology before.

But no, not tonight.....

 

[btmoore]

As they say when your on the cutting edge of technology your the first to bleed

DVRs are not cutting edge technology, If you want to use razor or knife paradigms, the technology behind DVRs is currently more like a plastic butter knifes, cheap, dull and easy to make. We are not talking about Laser projectors systems, or large screen OLED displays, this stuff has been around for many many many years now. The only thing that is remotely new and I mean remotely is MPEG4 and that is hardly new. I can not think of any new or any cutting edge technology that is being used currently in the HR20.

 

[TomF]

I think it's about time to break out the old HR10s again they might be slow but they always worked.

If you do break out the old HR10s, make sure that you don't plug in the telephone line. A short time with 6.3a and you will not be saying that "they always worked". I never had a problem with mine before 6.3a and now I have audio dropouts on all OTA channels, spontaneous reboots, grey screen recordings and general instability and unreliability. Be sure to check out the threads on the HR10-250 on tivocommunity.com

 

[Tom Robertson]

DVRs are not cutting edge technology, If you want to use razor or knife paradigms, the technology behind DVRs is currently more like a plastic butter knifes, cheap, dull and easy to make. We are not talking about Laser projectors systems, or large screen OLED displays, this stuff has been around for many many many years now. The only thing that is remotely new and I mean remotely is MPEG4 and that is hardly new. I can not think of any new or any cutting edge technology that is being used currently in the HR20.

I agree that DVR technology is not new and am most angered by UI defects, the philosophy of "delete all things that are not complete or pristine", lockups, etc. Very, very bad programming QA!

On the other hand there are actually two very new technologies: HDMI and MPEG4. HDMI is not showing itself to be a very interoperable specification yet as I have seen devices that are supposedly compliant but still won't talk to each other. The HR10 had hdmi problems initially. Alas, since Tivo did that programming, NDS (D*'s software arm) didn't get the direct knowledge of debugging that group of problems.

And MPEG4, while a known entity for static data (and also perhaps for some streaming data) is not widely used in real-time transcoding yet except by D*, E*, and maybe some cable companies. So there are lots of kinky things that need to be worked out by D* and their MPEG2 to MPEG4 transcoding vendor. Particularly in the area of how to robustly handle burps, glitches, dropouts, etc. in the source stream.

This does not excuse D* for poor quality control and poor product specifications/philosophies.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[TMNJ101]

You should turn your HR20 off when not in use. You have to think its got a Hard Drive in it so leaving it on 24/7 is going to have the same reaction as leaving your PC on 24/7. Shut it down every once in a while. Even when the lights arent all on and that it still records in standby.

 

[Tom Robertson]

You should turn your HR20 off when not in use. You have to think its got a Hard Drive in it so leaving it on 24/7 is going to have the same reaction as leaving your PC on 24/7. Shut it down every once in a while. Even when the lights arent all on and that it still records in standby.

Is there definitive source of "what is preserved by turning the thing off"? In the D*Tivo's, very, very few components were actually disabled by going to standby. The disk(s) still spun, all the tuners still operated, the cpu listened to the sat. streams for authorization, programming, guide info, etc. In short, only the outputs turned off. And who knows if the the output components were actually powered down or just turned to "stealth mode".

It seems from my playing with the Hr20 that the disks still spin, the tuners have to listen to the sat. information, etc. Aside from saving "all that energy lighting up them LEDs" , what is saved or preserved in turning the HR20 to (pseudo)"off"?

That was an attempt at joking about the very bright LEDs, not an attempted crack at TMNJ101 or anyone else. I'm actually am curious as to the differences between On and Off modes on these units.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[bwaldron]

If you do break out the old HR10s, make sure that you don't plug in the telephone line. A short time with 6.3a and you will not be saying that "they always worked". I never had a problem with mine before 6.3a and now I have audio dropouts on all OTA channels, spontaneous reboots, grey screen recordings and general instability and unreliability. Be sure to check out the threads on the HR10-250 on tivocommunity.com

I would say the same. While I didn't experience any issues with 6.3a other than audio dropouts on FOX, I also didn't keep it around long enough to really test it out...the dropouts were unacceptable. I had a 3.1.5f backup image I had made, and I restored that to my machine. Running 3.1.5, the machine is back to its normal reliable self...slow, but steady. I am staying unplugged until a newer upgrade appears and looks to be stable.

That said, there are folks who say 6.3a is working fine for them...

 

[bwaldron]

You should turn your HR20 off when not in use. You have to think its got a Hard Drive in it so leaving it on 24/7 is going to have the same reaction as leaving your PC on 24/7. Shut it down every once in a while. Even when the lights arent all on and that it still records in standby.

I have a home server PC that stays on 24/7 and has for years (monitor is turned off when not in use).

There are plenty of people who will tell you that it's better for a drive to stay running 24/7 than to deal with the stress placed upon it by lots of starting and stopping.

 

[btmoore]

I agree that DVR technology is not new and am most angered by UI defects, the philosophy of "delete all things that are not complete or pristine", lockups, etc. Very, very bad programming QA!

On the other hand there are actually two very new technologies: HDMI and MPEG4. HDMI is not showing itself to be a very interoperable specification yet as I have seen devices that are supposedly compliant but still won't talk to each other. The HR10 had hdmi problems initially. Alas, since Tivo did that programming, NDS (D*'s software arm) didn't get the direct knowledge of debugging that group of problems.

And MPEG4, while a known entity for static data (and also perhaps for some streaming data) is not widely used in real-time transcoding yet except by D*, E*, and maybe some cable companies. So there are lots of kinky things that need to be worked out by D* and their MPEG2 to MPEG4 transcoding vendor. Particularly in the area of how to robustly handle burps, glitches, dropouts, etc. in the source stream.

This does not excuse D* for poor quality control and poor product specifications/philosophies.

Cheers,
Tom

Yep the HDMI is relatively new but not that new, I don't use it and it is not related to vast majority of bugs in the HR20, I know because I am experiencing most of them and I use componenet video, unless it is some kind of crazy side effect for just having the code to support the HDMI in the box. It is also an interface hoisted on the user to make the MPAA and RIAA happy, the more it has problems the more it makes me happy. I hope there is a long running future of HDMI problems, that might, one day, lead to the death of this standard and any content restriction on existing analog or digital HD interfaces.

Regarding MPEG4, I have been using MPEG4 for 3.5 years to stream real time video streams from my security systems from one of my businesses, over the internet, and to my home for off site storage and real time security monitoring. This technology is not new, perhaps new to D* but MPEG4 H.263 has been in use (from a technology perspective) for a very long time. MPEG4 H.263 is a mainstream technology for video transmission, I would call it off the shelf at this point in time.

 

[litzdog911]

You should turn your HR20 off when not in use. You have to think its got a Hard Drive in it so leaving it on 24/7 is going to have the same reaction as leaving your PC on 24/7. Shut it down every once in a while. Even when the lights arent all on and that it still records in standby.

Putting your HR20 in "Standby" does not save any "wear and tear" on the hard drive because it's always powered. Many experts think this actually causes less stress on the drive than power off/on cycles cause.

 

[lguvenoz]

Putting your HR20 in "Standby" does not save any "wear and tear" on the hard drive because it's always powered. Many experts think this actually causes less stress on the drive than power off/on cycles cause.

I've been in the IT field for more than 14 years, and would agree with this sentiment. Hard drives are very reliable even when left running nonstop for years. The biggest concern you ever have is the thermal changes when stopping and starting the drive. These can be more damaging than leaving it running.

 

[LameLefty]

Regarding MPEG4, I have been using MPEG4 for 3.5 years to stream real time video streams from my security systems from one of my businesses, over the internet, and to my home for off site storage and real time security monitoring. This technology is not new, perhaps new to D* but MPEG4 H.263 has been in use (from a technology perspective) for a very long time. MPEG4 H.263 is a mainstream technology for video transmission, I would call it off the shelf at this point in time.

D* uses H.264.

 

[eengert]

If you do break out the old HR10s, make sure that you don't plug in the telephone line. A short time with 6.3a and you will not be saying that "they always worked". I never had a problem with mine before 6.3a and now I have audio dropouts on all OTA channels, spontaneous reboots, grey screen recordings and general instability and unreliability. Be sure to check out the threads on the HR10-250 on tivocommunity.com

A little off topic, I suppose, but since the OP mentioned the HR10 and you warned about 6.3a, I'll just mention that there is some chatter that doing a Clear Program Data, followed by Guided Setup in "Satellite Only" mode, followed by Guided Setup in "Sat & Antenna" mode, followed by an OTA re-scan might fix the problems you mention. I'm still on 3.1.5f as I wait to find out more definitively if that works (it's just a theory at this point, but has some legs). But since you're already on 6.3a, Tom, it can't hurt for you to give that a try. Only thing you lose is your SPs, so make note of them before doing the CPD so you can re-enter them afterwards. And make sure you have at least a 4 hour window before your next scheduled recording since the CPD takes around 2 hours and then you'll need some time to setup SPs and it takes some time for the guide data to be re-populated. I'd appreciate hearing your results - maybe via PM.

 

[Alvin Nuckleglazer]

DVRs are not cutting edge technology, If you want to use razor or knife paradigms, the technology behind DVRs is currently more like a plastic butter knifes, cheap, dull and easy to make. We are not talking about Laser projectors systems, or large screen OLED displays, this stuff has been around for many many many years now. The only thing that is remotely new and I mean remotely is MPEG4 and that is hardly new. I can not think of any new or any cutting edge technology that is being used currently in the HR20.

yes dvrs are not new tech but in this case we are dealing with new software controlling the dvr. thats where the issues lie not the hardware. look how long it took tivo software to fully mature. im sure drectvs software will mature as well. ive rarely seen any software as complex as whats running the hr20s to be 100% stable, bug free. patience grasshopper.

 

[btmoore]

yes dvrs are not new tech but in this case we are dealing with new software controlling the dvr. thats where the issues lie not the hardware. look how long it took tivo software to fully mature. im sure drectvs software will mature as well. ive rarely seen any software as complex as whats running the hr20s to be 100% stable, bug free. patience grasshopper.

Of course it is new software, but not new technology and you are right that is where the problem is. :bang But it is not because this is anything bleeding edge, it is a lack of QA and testing and perhaps design issues in the software, not because we are breaking any new ground here.

Re the tivo software, it was stable 6 years ago when bought my DTiVo. Did they enhance it, yep, did it contain minor bugs, maybe but none that I ran into, and my DVR did not crash, have interface lockups or miss recordings, a DVR that comes on the market should do DVR things right, that is why that product was a success. Small features may have bugs but this box is not performing the basics of what it is suppose to do 99.999% maybe 90% or 95% which is a failing grade in this case. If you cant relay on your DVR to record it is a failure.

You must not see much software, I run into software every day that is more complex that what is running in the HR20.

 

[bwaldron]

If you cant relay on your DVR to record it is a failure.

Exactlly. It should be set-it-and-forget-it; if you have to babysit the machine because you're just not sure it will work, a great deal of the value of a DVR is lost.

And you (and others above) are correct. This is not complex software or cutting-edge technology.