DBSTalk Forum banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
AllStar
Joined
·
97 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last night I added a new H25 to my existing setup consisting of an HR24 and H24. My dish is a slimline-5 that is connected to an SWM-8. I have a green label 4 way splitter attached to the SWM-8. My existing HR24 and H24 work fine and I've never seen this error on either of those.

The error I'm seeing happens after the H25 detects the dish and SWM and it says "Errors found on Tuner 1. Check your installation and re-test." It then displays a red X over the odd transponders (13v) for 99 and 103. And a red X over even (18v) for 103. The rest have blue checkmark. I've attached a picture.

The phone agent at Directv that was doing the activation had me re-run the setup, but I still received the same error message. He then said that it probably was a "false error." He had me check my local channels and they all come in fine. If I run the signal strenght test, everything looks good and is basically identical to what I see on my other receivers.

So, do I leave well enough alone or is this really a problem? If it is a problem, what could be causing it?


H25_Error by mpaquette, on Flickr
 

·
Icon
Joined
·
832 Posts
I had the same, or at least similar issue, with a new receiver just a week or so ago. Luckily it was DirecTV tech install of MRV and a new DVR so it was his problem. :) Apparently they have a QA/QC routine that generates a "good install" code and he couldn't leave until he got that code. We could see no particularly outstanding signal issues on my other receivers but the new one was giving pretty much the same screen you're showing. We had to go to the old tweaking method of him on a ladder at my dish and me in front of the TV doing the"that's better, that's worse, that's better" drill until he nailed the aim and we passed the test and got the install code. It did turn out my dish was just aimed a bit high but it took 10-15 minutes of very small adjustments to get there. Again, the dish looked fine on the other receivers but we weren't running complete installs on them, just looking at the signal strength across the board. I was actually a bit surprised at the low level of tolerance in the QA/QC routine, it appears to be pretty picky. Once we were done I had 90+, actually many at 100, across almost all sats and transponders or at least those that count. :)
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
244 Posts
wahooq said:
shades is right this happens a lot with activations...I'd say probably 2 out of 5 ...chances are everything is ok
OK, guess I need the long version:

it happens alot because at least 2/5 dishes are out of alignment / not properly dithered. Its the same screen that comes up when a tech does an IV Retest or installs a new receiver. Your dish alignment may not be off by enough to affect your day to day tv watching, but it doesn't meet directv's standards. There are a couple transponders on each satellite that are measured by that test, and if they are below a certain number, then you get the red x. Judging by the picture posted, I would assume your dish has shifted a tiny tiny bit and you probably have some 99/103 transponders in the low-mid 80s which would trigger the red x's. Either that or you activated the box during a storm.

Of course, if this ever shows up on an hr22-100 in a non-swim system, then it could be meaningless because the box reads the 103 even wrong
 

·
Icon
Joined
·
832 Posts
MrShowtime said:
OK, guess I need the long version:

it happens alot because at least 2/5 dishes are out of alignment / not properly dithered. Its the same screen that comes up when a tech does an IV Retest or installs a new receiver. Your dish alignment may not be off by enough to affect your day to day tv watching, but it doesn't meet directv's standards. There are a couple transponders on each satellite that are measured by that test, and if they are below a certain number, then you get the red x. Judging by the picture posted, I would assume your dish has shifted a tiny tiny bit and you probably have some 99/103 transponders in the low-mid 80s which would trigger the red x's. Either that or you activated the box during a storm.

Of course, if this ever shows up on an hr22-100 in a non-swim system, then it could be meaningless because the box reads the 103 even wrong
Which was exactly my situation. Before the upgrade visit I was watching TV without any trouble. Could I notice an improvement after the dithering? Nope, but that what was needed to pass DirecTV's standard. The upside is that I know that the dish is, at least for now, aimed about as well as it can be aimed and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
42,754 Posts
randyk47 said:
Which was exactly my situation. Before the upgrade visit I was watching TV without any trouble. Could I notice an improvement after the dithering? Nope, but that what was needed to pass DirecTV's standard. The upside is that I know that the dish is, at least for now, aimed about as well as it can be aimed and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
And more than likely, you now have the most rainfade resistance that you can.
With a meter you can read two parts of the signal:

  1. Power in dBm or dBµV
  2. Carrier to Noise Ratio.
The CNR is what your receiver's screen relates to. If it didn't, you'd get different numbers between receivers on short coax runs, from those on long coax runs.
The higher the power, the more rainfade resistance you have.
 

·
Icon
Joined
·
832 Posts
veryoldschool said:
And more than likely, you now have the most rainfade resistance that you can.
With a meter you can read two parts of the singal:

  1. Power in dBm or dBµV
  2. Carrier to Noise Ratio.
The CNR is what your receiver's screen relates to. If it didn't, you'd get different numbers between receivers on short coax runs, from those on long coax runs.
The higher the power, the more rainfade resistance you have.
I kind of wish we had a rain fade problem as we're in an extended drought situation here in south central Texas but I understand your comment and I'm sure that's the case. I don't know if I'm a typical DirecTV customer or not. I kind of go in cycles where I pay a lot of attention, and sometimes money, to my television system and then just ignore it. My last major press was probably four years ago when I spent a lot of time upgrading TV's, AV receivers, Blu-ray players, speakers, sat dish, SWiM, etc., etc. This latest cycle is a bit less extensive and probably qualifies as "preventive maintenance" rather than a major upgrade. Bottom line is that I probably hadn't been paying as much attention as I should have been to my sat signals and wasn't aware it had drifted out of alignment. My bad.
 

·
AllStar
Joined
·
97 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the insight. This receiver is on the longest coax run away from the dish, so this may explain why my other 2 receivers don't show this error. I think I'll consider having my dish aligned. It's been in place for about 4 years and I do have some 99/103 transponders in the mid 80's.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
42,754 Posts
mpaquette said:
Thanks for the insight. This receiver is on the longest coax run away from the dish, so this may explain why my other 2 receivers don't show this error. I think I'll consider having my dish aligned. It's been in place for about 4 years and I do have some 99/103 transponders in the mid 80's.
Maybe a quick check would be to try it at one of your other locations with shorter runs and see what it does there. Not that this will "fix it", but just give you an idea of the problem.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
8,071 Posts
I wonder though if the acceptable signal levels for passing IV retests vary depending on the area of the country? Lesser for signal expectations in what are on record as typically problematic coverage areas?

For instance I've never had really great levels for the Ka signals here. In spite of all manner of peaking and dithering the dish (SL-5) over the past several years its always from about the mid 70s for all the 103ca levels to around the high 70s to mid eighties for 99c and 103cb. Almost never do I get any Ka transponder levels in the nineties, yet when my HR34 was installed today, the tech. ran an IV retest on the HR34 and a HR24 here and both of which passed to my surprise. :confused:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
42,754 Posts
HoTat2 said:
Or perhaps I should more correctly phrase it as an "IV test" for the new HR34 today and a "retest" for a previously installed "HR24" :)
[again] You're more than likely not looking at the same values.
Yes I'd guess the RF power to pass is related to location, since the beams are tweaked for that, but looking at the percentage on the setup screens aren't the same as reading a voltage value.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
8,071 Posts
veryoldschool said:
[again] You're more than likely not looking at the same values.
Yes I'd guess the RF power to pass is related to location, since the beams are tweaked for that, but looking at the percentage on the setup screens aren't the same as reading a voltage value.
What do you mean?

I thought the IV retest is based on those "setup screen percentage" values which ultimately reflect the C/N ratio at the LNB input?

Not RF power level.
 

·
Mentor
Joined
·
41 Posts
"HoTat2" said:
I wonder though if the acceptable signal levels for passing IV retests vary depending on the area of the country? Lesser for signal expectations in what are on record as typically problematic coverage areas?

For instance I've never had really great levels for the Ka signals here. In spite of all manner of peaking and dithering the dish (SL-5) over the past several years its always from about the mid 70s for all the 103ca levels to around the high 70s to mid eighties for 99c and 103cb. Almost never do I get any Ka transponder levels in the nineties, yet when my HR34 was installed today, the tech. ran an IV retest on the HR34 and a HR24 here and both of which passed to my surprise. :confused:
Yes the IV Test does take the account zip code into play to figure out the signal thresholds.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
42,754 Posts
HoTat2 said:
What do you mean?

I thought the IV retest is based on those "setup screen percentage" values which ultimately reflect the C/N ratio at the LNB input?

Not RF power level.
You can get an alignment error message with a good "setup screen", where the CNR is good but the voltage is low.
A Birdog will read 38 dBµV with a q of 85%, and at 78 dBµV it's 91%
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
8,071 Posts
veryoldschool said:
You can get an alignment error message with a good "setup screen", where the CNR is good but the voltage is low.
A Birdog will read 38 dBµV with a q of 85%, and at 78 dBµV it's 91%
But the IV retest is performed at the receiver, is it not?

While I can understand how the actual RF signal levels can be seen by the receivers in legacy installs, for SWiM unless the IV retest is about detecting if RF levels fall below the agc range of the SWiM, I don't see how the receiver can see any other than the C/N ratio (sensed as BER of course) to use for the test. :confused:

The RF signal power at the receiver input once regulated by the agc action of the SWiM is a nominally constant -30 dbm minus any intervening coax and splitter losses isn't it?
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top