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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Satellite & Cable: Give Us TiVo!

If you are a DIRECTV subscriber, chances are you'll want a new HD DVR.

Why?

They are launching new satellites in 2007 for many more HD channels. The only catch is if you don't have a
new model HD receiver, you are out in the cold. (Editor's Note: DIRECTV will eventually switch their high-def signals to a new MPEG 4 transmission system, which the new HD receivers will be able to display.)
See the rest of the article at: TV Predictions

Note; This article is in the HR20 forum, specifically because it is discussion the HR0
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ooops... Yah need text, to have a hyperlink.. :)
 

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Good article. I completely agree. I would pay more for the HD Tivo. Although I haven't had as much trouble as some with the HR20, I still get audio dropouts and occasional pixelation with the new software upload.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here is my take on the article (like you thought I wasn't going to have one).

-) How come TiVo seems to get a pass, and doesn't do anything wrong? I mean the T3 has had it's share of issues in it's first three months.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51

It now has already received software updates...
And shouldn't they have gotten it right out of the box? I mean they are TiVo after all, and they have been doings this now for 7 years.

And this isn't even going into the problems that the SD units have.

I don't like comparing the DVR+ line to the TiVo line... but this specific article is directly doing that. We have blog after blog, article after article lately stating how many issues there are with the HR20....

Where are the similar articles about the TiVo Series 3, the Series 2, and so on? Based on Forums (such as TiVoCommunity... there are plenty of people reporting issues), and that same argument is the basis for most of these blogs.

Am I saying that the DVR+ series is perfect... hell know... I know better. But if you are going to use one set of criteria for one line of product, you should use the same line for the other.

-) 2nd "Why should TiVo get a pass"... Do think it is just DirecTV and the Cable-Co's being stubborn and wanting to push TiVo out... or could there be something on TiVo's side of the negotiating table that these companies don't like? Why would these companies opt to spend the multi-millions of dollars to design, build, write, support, promote, ect... their own units... and then have to "defend" them against the household name... TiVo ?

Sure Comcast and Cox have a deals... but the Comcast one is now 2+ years old, and the box STILL isn't released (there have been reports for the last 6 months that it "near" release, but regardless it still isn't here, and is reported to going to be running on 3+ year old hardware... for an extra fee..... ) The COX one is no where near on the radar yet.

-) MPEG-4 on this scale hasn't been done before... it simply hasn't. MPEG-4 has been around for a while, but Cable Co's are not using MPEG-4 compression, Dish Network has, and they are having simillar issues with their live-time MPEG-4 compression.... It is not like DiVX where the engine can run for 2-3 hours to create the MPEG-4 file.... this is live time compression, of "live" TV programming

-) I don't know if was the same author, but it was TV Predictions... that was clammering for the box to be released.... that things where slipping... Now they are saying it was RUSHED, and shouldn't have been released..... It seems that they want it both ways.
You can argue that the T3 was rushed to market as well....

-) "Hundreds of thousands of DIRECTV customers are getting really upset"; Huh? What is that based off of? Just last week DireCTV stated only 1.6 subscribers have HD services.... so are you saying more then 300,000 of them have the HR20? And they are all upset with it?

I just don't get why everyone wants to bury the unit 3 months in.
The information is out there about the unit.... That is what it is there for, so you can make your own informed choice about if you want to go ahead with the HR20, or wait for something else. No one is forcing you into an HR20...

If you want an HR10... they are still out there.

I wouldn't pay a dime more for a TiVo powered unit... why... after using TiVo for 6 years... And then using the DVR+ series for the last year...
It doesn't have any features in it, for my usage pattern... that warrant a extra cost.

Should they possible offer a 2nd, 3rd series receiver line... possible.
But, when the UTV series came out... it wasn't flocked to for a higher cost... Sure Microsoft pulled the plug on the project, but you would think that someone would try to buy that from Microsoft and continue with it... if it was worth the cost and effort to compete with the TiVo product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Greg Bimson said:
Let's not forget one of the main reasons DirecTV went in-house for the HD DVR: DirecTV wants all of their receivers to have the same look, feel and interface.
As a side note to that...

Now that I have 5 different "receivers"
DTivo
Flip-Top (D10)
Humax (D11)
R15 and HR20

I can now really see the benefits of having a very similar GUI accross the different receiver types....
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
I just don't get why everyone wants to bury the unit 3 months in.
The information is out there about the unit.... That is what it is there for, so you can make your own informed choice about if you want to go ahead with the HR20, or wait for something else. No one is forcing you into an HR20...

If you want an HR10... they are still out there.
Earl, no disrespect but PLEASE!!! Officially from D*TV, you CANNOT get an HR10, you CANNOT get MPEG4 channels from D*TV UNLESS you have an HR20, and what "something else" is D*TV working on that's worth waiting for????? :nono2:

The article was short, sweet and to the point...Tivo's DVR was STABLE, RELIABLE and SLOOOOW -- it appears the HR20 is FAST, but at the expense of stability and reliability. I do not know about you but if I HAD a choice from D*TV, I would take the first choice, wouldn't you???? ;)
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
As a side note to that...

Now that I have 5 different "receivers"
DTivo
Flip-Top (D10)
Humax (D11)
R15 and HR20

I can now really see the benefits of having a very similar GUI accross the different receiver types....
I think everyone would agree that a common GUI is generally a good thing, what is more important is that it actually works. That is the issue with the HR20 it is not a reliable DVR, it does not record I have 8 lost or corrupted recordings since the new code was released. These same bugs have been in the box since it was released. Forget the GUI they need to work on basic functionality.
 

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I would pay per month for true commercial skip. I like the HR20 but the slip is tedious. The skip on the HR10 is sooo fast. As fast as the menus are with the HR20 compared to the HR10, the main function for me is playback of recorded shows, and the lack of a skip is a true step backwards.

I wish we had a choice with the HD DVRS now also. I liked the old days with D* when there were so many receivers to choose from. It's true how a lot of this is related to streamlining.

I wish TiVo could negotiate a new deal to make one of these for DirecTV. To basically make it obsolete, is just plain sad.
 

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btmoore said:
I think everyone would agree that a common GUI is generally a good thing
Nope. DVRs and receivers have drastically different uses and need different UIs.

I only say this because you said "everyone". I don't expect everyone (or possibly even most) to agree with what I said, either.
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
I wouldn't pay a dime more for a TiVo powered unit... why... after using TiVo for 6 years... And then using the DVR+ series for the last year...
It doesn't have any features in it, for my usage pattern... that warrant a extra cost.
I Assume that your usage pattern does not require that the DVR actually record what you tell it to.

For me I would pay an extra buck or two for a HD DVR that actually worked, this unwatchable and partial bug crap is just bad product management. If you are going to release a DVR it needs to R correctly, I don't care if it is TiVo or D*.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
perilous said:
Earl, no disrespect but PLEASE!!! Officially from D*TV, you CANNOT get an HR10, you CANNOT get MPEG4 channels from D*TV UNLESS you have an HR20, and what "something else" is D*TV working on that's worth waiting for????? :nono2:

The article was short, sweet and to the point...Tivo's DVR was STABLE, RELIABLE and SLOOOOW -- it appears the HR20 is FAST, but at the expense of stability and reliability. I do not know about you but if I HAD a choice from D*TV, I would take the first choice, wouldn't you???? ;)
No disrespect taken (and no one should think they can't argue with me, on my opinions)...

You are right... You can't get one from DirecTV any more... They actually stopped building them nearly 18 months ago. But you can still get them from a few vendors, and the used market.

But you can still use the HR10 to get OTA....

But as of TODAY, right now... the HR10 is still a viable option. Sure you can't get MPEG-4 LIL-HD's, but I also can't get Interactive Content on any of the DTiVo series. So just like in most things, if you want to use the newer technology... you need the newer hardware.

There is no one that says you HAVE to get an HR20 today as your only HD DVR option. Now, once all the HD-SAT based content is MPEG-4 then that definently becomes an option.... but who is to say the HR20 won't be stable by then? (As in my usage in my home, I find it just as stable as my HR10)

So yes, Today.... You can say the HR10 is more stable then the HR20... then again, it is 3 years old (since design time)... so I would HOPE it would be more stable...
But what about "tomorrow"...
 

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perilous said:
Earl, no disrespect but PLEASE!!! Officially from D*TV, you CANNOT get an HR10, you CANNOT get MPEG4 channels from D*TV UNLESS you have an HR20, and what "something else" is D*TV working on that's worth waiting for????? :nono2:

The article was short, sweet and to the point...Tivo's DVR was STABLE, RELIABLE and SLOOOOW -- it appears the HR20 is FAST, but at the expense of stability and reliability. I do not know about you but if I HAD a choice from D*TV, I would take the first choice, wouldn't you???? ;)
Series 2 Tivos with the latest updated software are actually MUCH faster than the HR20 at just about everything. The only place where the Tivo is slower is when you re-order something in the prioritizer (can't think of the Tivo name for that right now).

Series 1 Tivos (I'm still using one) were very slow. Series 2 Tivos before they released the latest software were also very slow. As far as I know, the HR10 just got an update to the latest software, too.
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
-) How come TiVo seems to get a pass, and doesn't do anything wrong?.
Go Earl!

Absolutely spot on, nothing's ever TiVo's fault, it walks on water, and it's sh!+ don't stink. No other DVR is even worth considering, even if it offers features TiVo can't/won't. Puhlease! :rolleyes:
 

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My take ---

I support choice. I do think it's a shame for both sides that the D*-TiVo relationship came to an end, since it seemed to have been a benefit to customers as well as TiVo. (I also presume that high customer satisfaction was a benefit to D*).

I understand the business models in play but I think both satellite and cable companies owe it to consumers to provide choice in hardware. I'm sure there's decent money to be made in hardware, but there's also decent money to be lost in poor customer satisfaction. I believe that if the cable companies, telcos, and satellite companies were to license their technology to outsiders like TiVo instead of relying on in-house solutions or tightly bound vendor relationships (like Motorola has) the result would be overall higher satisfaction.

CableCard was supposed to fix this, at least for cable companies, but so far it's been a flop IMHO. There's no "big stick" or groundswell from consumers demanding it.

Right now I look at cell phone companies, who offer a variety of phones, some branded with the carrier's name, some branded with the OEM name. This works - people buy the phone they want and some spend nothing and some spend a lot. Some people even buy "unlocked" phones and choose their carrier (technology permitting).

Certainly there will always be those who buy the lowest cost solution but if we had some choice, some would go further. That's why companies like weaknees have succeeded.

As a D* customer I would love to see a line of receivers and DVRs with different capabilities. At one point D* had several different receivers, all D* or RCA branded but some had S-Video, Dolby, etc.

Clearly it's going to get more competitive as everyone ramps up to try to provide the same services. One would think that all the providers would be looking for ways to distinguish themselves with unique products and services. Offering a full line of hardware would be one way of doing that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
btmoore said:
I Assume that your usage pattern does not require that the DVR actually record what you tell it to.

For me I would pay an extra buck or two for a HD DVR that actually worked, this unwatchable and partial bug crap is just bad product management. If you are going to release a DVR it needs to R correctly, I don't care if it is TiVo or D*.
47 Season passes accross the two DVRs.

The HR20's ARE my primary DVR in my main viewing room.

-) I have had one recording missed now in 3 months. (and that was back in early September, and I am not 100% sure it wasn't my fault)

-) I have either been lucky, or just hasn't occured... I haven't had the partial bug.

-) I have had one or two non-playable recordings, but those where pre version D8

-) I have had to reset the boxes, but... I have had to do that with my HR10
over the years as well

-) I have seen some "pixelizing" and audio hiccups , but nothing "vastly" greater then what I saw via OTA with the HR10

So yes... In my usage, the HR20's are no worse then my HR10 was.
So either I am a little more used to the quirks of HD broadcasting, mixed in with DVR usage. And this was with having my first HR10 die because of a hard drive, about 3 months in (Which ultimately resulted in me stopping to watch Smallville as I lost 6 cued up episodes), the 2nd one returned because of a bad HDMI card, then the 3rd I gave up and spent $250 on an HDMI DVD player, so that the HR10 could go on the component input instead.
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
47 Season passes accross the two DVRs.

The HR20's ARE my primary DVR in my main viewing room.

-) I have had one recording missed now in 3 months. (and that was back in early September, and I am not 100% sure it wasn't my fault)

-) I have either been lucky, or just hasn't occured... I haven't had the partial bug.

-) I have had one or two non-playable recordings, but those where pre version D8

-) I have had to reset the boxes, but... I have had to do that with my HR10
over the years as well

-) I have seen some "pixelizing" and audio hiccups , but nothing "vastly" greater then what I saw via OTA with the HR10

So yes... In my usage, the HR20's are no worse then my HR10 was.
So either I am a little more used to the quirks of HD broadcasting, mixed in with DVR usage. And this was with having my first HR10 die because of a hard drive, about 3 months in (Which ultimately resulted in me stopping to watch Smallville as I lost 6 cued up episodes), the 2nd one returned because of a bad HDMI card, then the 3rd I concended and spent $250 on an HDMI DVD player, so that the HR10 could go on the component input instead.
I have 48 Season passes on one HR20. What is your split. maybe this is where the HR20 falls apart.
 
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