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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is the full thread if you want to read it:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66447

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55
Is the audio ahead of or lag behind the video? If the audio is ahead, some A/V receivers and processors have A/V sync delay you might be able to use. This is more of a bandaid for the symptom though as opposed to a cure for the cause.

Looks (& sounds) like the audio sync issue is a DELAY problem. In other words, the audio comes slightly AFTER the video. It seems to only be present on certain feeds, such as the pre-game to Monday Night Football this evening. It appears to be happening on both the HDMI and Component inputs. It doesn't happen on all HD feeds or SD feeds (as least as far as my limited "sampling" is concerned). It does happen on more than just MNF though. Would this be an HR20 issue, TV issue, or audio receiver issue? Or is it too hard to know? Thanks everyone!

Kurt
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Jeremy W said:
Well since Earl is clearly the only person who can address this issue, I better not say anything.
Come on now, I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.:icon_cry:
I thought the title would catch some traffic, as I am getting frustrated with this issue, and if you read the original thread, a user claims it may be a known issue that DTV is denying and I thought Earl might have some "inside" information on it! I just don't want to chase the problem if it is with the HR20 and DTV knows about it and will have a fix for it.

I emphatically welcome any insight you or anybody else may have Jeremy! Thanks.

Kurt
 

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There are so many factors that play into it... I don't think there is "one" answer to why or one answer on how to correct it.
 

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Now that Earl has given a completely useless answer ;), I will agree with him. That's why I just screwed around in original post, I had no answer to give. This wouldn't have been the first time I answered a thread directed at Earl. :D
 

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Try to run the signal paths as parallel as possible. If you are using HDMI, get your audio from the TV, not the TOSLink on the HR20. If you are having sync problems then, see if your problem improves or gets worse when you use the TOSLink on the HR20.

Your problem is likely additional delay from signal processing in your TV.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What's the TOSLink? I've got the optical cable running directly from the HR20 to my Bose receiver. I haven't tried the Digital Coax though. You think that might help?
 

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kvitense said:
What's the TOSLink? I've got the optical cable running directly from the HR20 to my Bose receiver. I haven't tried the Digital Coax though. You think that might help?
TOSLink is the optical digital connection.
Your Bose receiver is probably adding delay in decoding and D to A conversion.
 

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kvitense said:
Here is the full thread if you want to read it:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66447

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55
Is the audio ahead of or lag behind the video? If the audio is ahead, some A/V receivers and processors have A/V sync delay you might be able to use. This is more of a bandaid for the symptom though as opposed to a cure for the cause.

Looks (& sounds) like the audio sync issue is a DELAY problem. In other words, the audio comes slightly AFTER the video. It seems to only be present on certain feeds, such as the pre-game to Monday Night Football this evening. It appears to be happening on both the HDMI and Component inputs. It doesn't happen on all HD feeds or SD feeds (as least as far as my limited "sampling" is concerned). It does happen on more than just MNF though. Would this be an HR20 issue, TV issue, or audio receiver issue? Or is it too hard to know? Thanks everyone!

Kurt
Don't have an answer either, but it doesn't matter if you have a Felston DD540 (www.lipfix.com) or an Alchemy2 (www.alchemy2.com). I have the latter, but the former works fine too. And the guy who owns Lipfix.com is very honest, good merchant. He will not rip you off. Alchemy2 also makes one for HDMI sync issues. I have no stake in this, other than I am a happy customer of the Alchemy box.

You just point your remote at the little black box and using a + or - button, you sync up the video/audio using either toslink or coax cable. Simple as that. And it covers both the HR-20 or your DVD player at the same time (simple input toggle switch).
 

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tstarn said:
Don't have an answer either, but it doesn't matter if you have a Felston DD540 (www.lipfix.com) or an Alchemy2 (www.alchemy2.com). I have the latter, but the former works fine too. And the guy who owns Lipfix.com is very honest, good merchant. He will not rip you off. Alchemy2 also makes one for HDMI sync issues. I have no stake in this, other than I am a happy customer of the Alchemy box.

You just point your remote at the little black box and using a + or - button, you sync up the video/audio using either toslink or coax cable. Simple as that. And it covers both the HR-20 or your DVD player at the same time (simple input toggle switch).
can you explain to me how this device would help when the problem is that the audio is already behind the video?
 

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matto said:
can you explain to me how this device would help when the problem is that the audio is already behind the video?
Can't explain, but you can adjust the sync in either direction. All I do is mess with the remote, and it works. You'd have to read the details on the sites I noted for an explanation, but both devices work the same. Or, you can call or write to the Alchemy people, who are very smart guys. I'm just an end user who needed a solution, mainly for my upconverting DVD player, but it works on satellite and cable boxes too (as long as you are running the audio through the box). In other words, it's for use with a home receiver. Again, I'm just saying that I tried it (money back guarantee) and liked it. It solved my issues, and it could be useful to someone else.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
tstarn said:
Can't explain, but you can adjust the sync in either direction. All I do is mess with the remote, and it works. You'd have to read the details on the sites I noted for an explanation, but both devices work the same. Or, you can call or write to the Alchemy people, who are very smart guys. I'm just an end user who needed a solution, mainly for my upconverting DVD player, but it works on satellite and cable boxes too (as long as you are running the audio through the box). In other words, it's for use with a home receiver. Again, I'm just saying that I tried it (money back guarantee) and liked it. It solved my issues, and it could be useful to someone else.
What if the delay is not on all channels at all times? Does it make an "across the board" adjustment? This is only a problem on certain channels at certain times. Seems to be intermittent.
 

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kvitense said:
What if the delay is not on all channels at all times? Does it make an "across the board" adjustment? This is only a problem on certain channels at certain times. Seems to be intermittent.
Well, Matto thinks its useless, but since I started using it, it's solved my issue. Whatever. You can turn it off easily with the remote, so it's in pass through mode. Guess he didn't want to check with the folks who make and sell the boxes for an explanation. He seems to know more about it.

Sorry if I didn't answer your question, I didn't care about the reasons, I just wanted a fix, and I got one for my issue. Matto may be able to help you, since he has no confidence in my advice.
 

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matto said:
unless the unit has a time machine built in, it would be impossible to fix the problem the OP is having (please see the title of this thread)
You asked and I answered the best I could. I saw the title, and it said audio sync problem. I had a sync problem, and now I don't. I'm sure the folks at Alchemy could provide some answers to your question about audio or video delay issues. That's it.
 

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matto said:
unless the unit has a time machine built in, it would be impossible to fix the problem the OP is having (please see the title of this thread)
Here's some background for you from an article on sync issues by a professional audio/video guy:

(here's the entire article, for anyone who is interested)
http://www.alchemy2.com/site/reviews.html#av

"While a situation in which the sound actually lags the video is theoretically possible (and would most likely originate at the production end rather than in the playback system), it isn't likely. I know of no consumer devices that will correct for this (they would have to delay the video, not the audio).

The far more common scenario of the lagging picture is a different story. More and more surround pre-pros and AV receivers (and even the occasional DVD player, though this won't help with HD broadcasts) are including adjustable audio delay circuits. They delay all channels equally, unlike the individual channel delays that are part of the initial system setup and calibration. Many of these circuits have a limited range. While a delay of 4 frames (133.3ms) should be sufficient to accommodate any likely mismatch with the video, there might be instances in which you need even more. And there are some older-and otherwise still very good-products that lack this feature entirely."

So you are right about the machine not fixing the sound lagging the video, but on the other hand, it would be tough to find that situation, according to this expert at least (and not me).

Food for thought, anyway.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
tstarn said:
Here's some background for you from an article on sync issues by a professional audio/video guy:

(here's the entire article, for anyone who is interested)
http://www.alchemy2.com/site/reviews.html#av

"While a situation in which the sound actually lags the video is theoretically possible (and would most likely originate at the production end rather than in the playback system), it isn't likely. I know of no consumer devices that will correct for this (they would have to delay the video, not the audio).

The far more common scenario of the lagging picture is a different story. More and more surround pre-pros and AV receivers (and even the occasional DVD player, though this won't help with HD broadcasts) are including adjustable audio delay circuits. They delay all channels equally, unlike the individual channel delays that are part of the initial system setup and calibration. Many of these circuits have a limited range. While a delay of 4 frames (133.3ms) should be sufficient to accommodate any likely mismatch with the video, there might be instances in which you need even more. And there are some older-and otherwise still very good-products that lack this feature entirely."

So you are right about the machine not fixing the sound lagging the video, but on the other hand, it would be tough to find that situation, according to this expert at least (and not me).

Food for thought, anyway.
I am almost certain the sound is coming AFTER the video. It isn't by much, but I watch for certain letters being pronounced, like the letter "P". It's obvious that the sound is formed with the actor's mouth before I hear it. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me. Anyone else ever have the sound AFTER the video?
 
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