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· AllStar
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last night we decided to watch Click at 9PM. I told it to record, it asked me to confirm the PPV cost, then told us it wanted to switch to channel 130 at 9PM, which it did. All went well UNTIL my wife asked for a bathroom break -- I paused, then when she returned -- NOTHING. I could find no way to restart the showing, from any screen. Fortunately it was as All Day Ticket, so we were able to resume a half hour later live on another channel -- but we were never able to play back what we bought to record!

How can this be this messed up at this late date? All it has to do is what all the other DTV DVR's do. It's really time for some carnage in the programming staff, and buying or porting some code that WORKS. How can just adding HD functionality screw the fundamental operation of the DVR??? And this is informed incredulity -- I've been designing electronic products for over 40 years, and the process is not a mystery to me. . .
 

· AllStar
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65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Clemsole said:
Maybe you need to go to work for D*. You could fix all their problems.
Yea, that's why I was invited to the Satellite Pioneers' Dinner at SatExpo2007 -- 'cause I don't know nuthin 'bout this satellite stuff. . .
 

· Banned
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k2ue said:
Yea, that's why I was invited to the Satellite Pioneers' Dinner at SatExpo2007 -- 'cause I don't know nuthin 'bout this satellite stuff. . .
Yea, so that means you also knows everythings 'bout dat dare DVR software development.
:sure:
 

· AllStar
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
glennb said:
Yea, so that means you also knows everythings 'bout dat dare DVR software development.
:sure:
What's your point? That the engineers at DirecTV are gods whose wisdom cannot be questioned? There are a lot of folks in this country that earn a living from technology and have a reasonable basis for an opinion on how well or badly the HR20 rollout has gone, because they deal with equally complex engineering tasks every day. They started with code for an SD DVR that at least recorded and played back as it should, there is little excuse for that essential functionality being broken while adding HD capability -- and still being broken this long after initial release..
 

· Hall Of Fame
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How can just adding HD functionality screw the fundamental operation of the DVR???

From reading this you are saying that they took an R15 addred HD to it and someohow things got worse? I think people who have used the R15 and the HR20 would argue that point here.

However it is unfortunate that the HR20 does not record programming that we can watch 100% all of the time. I am patient and can wait for it to be perfected. I also have a T* based DVR to ensure that all of my programs are reorded. Hopefully someday soon I will have faith that the HR20 will record ALL of my shows. I have only had one failed recording ever so I think I am doing pretty good with this thing so far. Hopefully yours will start performing the way you expect it to soon. If not I would be on the phone with CSR right away.
 

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k2ue said:
What's your point? That the engineers at DirecTV are gods whose wisdom cannot be questioned? There are a lot of folks in this country that earn a living from technology and have a reasonable basis for an opinion on how well or badly the HR20 rollout has gone, because they deal with equally complex engineering tasks every day. They started with code for an SD DVR that at least recorded and played back as it should, there is little excuse for that essential functionality being broken while adding HD capability -- and still being broken this long after initial release..
My point is I'm sure there's a lot more to it than just copying over the code from the SD DVR and adding a few lines of code for the HD stuff so don't go around making it sound like the HR20 DVR software developers are a bunch of morons.

It's easy for a lot of folks in the country that earn a living from technology that aren't currently working on this project to stand back and say how badly the HR20rollout has gone.
 

· AllStar
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mixer said:
How can just adding HD functionality screw the fundamental operation of the DVR???

From reading this you are saying that they took an R15 addred HD to it and someohow things got worse? I think people who have used the R15 and the HR20 would argue that point here.

However it is unfortunate that the HR20 does not record programming that we can watch 100% all of the time. I am patient and can wait for it to be perfected. I also have a T* based DVR to ensure that all of my programs are reorded. Hopefully someday soon I will have faith that the HR20 will record ALL of my shows. I have only had one failed recording ever so I think I am doing pretty good with this thing so far. Hopefully yours will start performing the way you expect it to soon. If not I would be on the phone with CSR right away.
Are you saying that the R15 will not reliably record & playback an (SD) PPV movie, to this day?
 

· AllStar
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65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
glennb said:
My point is I'm sure there's a lot more to it than just copying over the code from the SD DVR and adding a few lines of code for the HD stuff so don't go around making it sound like the HR20 DVR software developers are a bunch of morons.

It's easy for a lot of folks in the country that earn a living from technology that aren't currently working on this project to stand back and say how badly the HR20rollout has gone.
Are you suggesting there are no badly organized or managed projects? That all software writers are competent, and that they all have their ego so well under control they will get help and/or peer criticism when necessary? You have been working in a different universe, apparently. Why is it so necessary to tear a piece out of me for suggesting the emperor's new clothes are saran? I've screwed up on the job too, but I know perfectly well that denial won't fix my mistakes, in fact if I don't conceed that a given design just doesn't work I have very little chance of getting serious enough about finding the structural flaws to construct a good and permanent fix.

And by the way, how the rollout has gone is now a historical fact -- spin only works in the short term -- history is not swayed by it in the end.
 

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k2ue said:
Are you suggesting there are no badly organized or managed projects? That all software writers are competent, and that they all have their ego so well under control they will get help and/or peer criticism when necessary? You have been working in a different universe, apparently. Why is it so necessary to tear a piece out of me for suggesting the emperor's new clothes are saran? I've screwed up on the job too, but I know perfectly well that denial won't fix my mistakes, in fact if I don't conceed that a given design just doesn't work I have very little chance of getting serious enough about finding the structural flaws to construct a good and permanent fix.

And by the way, how the rollout has gone is now a historical fact -- spin only works in the short term -- history is not swayed by it in the end.
I didn't think DIRECTV is denying anything. There's software bugs, they'll be fixed I'm sure. No one said DIRECTV thinks everything is perfect with the HR20. I didn't say that.

Have a nice Christmas and a happy new year.
:)
 

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k2ue said:
Are you saying that the R15 will not reliably record & playback an (SD) PPV movie, to this day?
YES (for some)!

And the R15 and HR20 are two completely different beast on the inside. Very basically, R15=NDS XTV and HR20=Motorola Ucentric (which is used in many of Motorola's cable DVRs).
 

· Hall Of Fame
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k2ue, I agree with you. This has been a very bad showing from D*. It is clear that the code quality has been poor. The real question is who is at fault within D*. Did marketing pressure the release of the product before it was ready, did QA fail to have adequate testing process and procedures or is the programming and design team just not appropriately skilled for this job, perhaps it is a combination of all the above and more, regardless it has been a less than pleasant experience. It is also ridiculous that you are attacked when you question the quality of the development team and suggest changes. I don't understand why there are some that get so personally offended by those who expect better quality from D*. I just don't understand the value of the personal attack by saying things like "Maybe you need to go to work for D*. You could fix all their problems." or "Yea, so that means you also knows everythings 'bout dat dare DVR software development." I don't understand where that detain comes from. IMO you have some very valid points about how it is hard to understand how D* could release a product in this condition, how a DVR works is a well understood concept it is a real shame D* came to market with the product in this condition.
 

· Godfather
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335 Posts
The name of the game is.....hurry up and get it out there so we can lure customers into a 24 month committment....who care's if the product works or not.....we'll make money despite our shortcomings and, we'll let our customers beta test the product for us for free....great marketing scam, huh.
 

· AllStar
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65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
jonaswan2 said:
YES (for some)!

And the R15 and HR20 are two completely different beast on the inside. Very basically, R15=NDS XTV and HR20=Motorola Ucentric (which is used in many of Motorola's cable DVRs).
My point was that they started with a design, whether NDS or Ucentric that was capable of recording a PPV -- Motorola can't sell it to a cable company either if it can't do that. And that's not merely convenience that's REVENUE -- I'm amazed that a week could go by before a bean counter made it abundantly clear that direct revenue producing activities must work reliably! I work for a company that does embedded hardware/firmware/software, sometimes for the HDTV marketplace, and I'm quite aware that designs get ported to new processors, hardware and OS's every day -- it is not magic, or unprecedented ,or even especially hard, it just requires the diligent application of good practice, good judgment, and good QA.
 
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