[dcowboy7]

they rag on sats blu-ray comparisions for video/audio:

Dish Network announced this morning that they would soon be offering a total of 114 national HD channels, and to celebrate the announcement they would, starting tomorrow, offer the Will Smith film 'I am Legend' in 1080p as a pay-per-view offering. They went further to suggest that because it was 1080p, the presentation would be "same as Blu-ray Disc quality". Of course, anyone with a Blu-ray player knows this definitely can't be true.

While both satellite broadcasts and Blu-ray movies can display 1080p video, the similarities end there. In order to conserve broadcast space, companies like DishNetwork and DirecTV will limit video bitrate to less than half of what a typical Blu-ray title requires for perfect video reproduction. This often results in pixelation during scenes with a lot of movement, which is definitely not a characteristic of Blu-ray.

Video aside, audio is something that can't even compare. Even the best satellite broadcasts only use 5.1 Dolby Digital for audio soundtracks. These tracks are easily trumped by PCM, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio often found on Blu-ray discs.

The fact remains, neither satellite, cable, fiber-optic, nor any other broadcast medium can compare to the high definition experience of Blu-ray. The bogus statement made by DishNetwork only adds to consumer confusion about high definition offerings and is a desperate attempt to ride on Blu-ray's coattails. Much the same as claims of "high definition" digital downloads must be heavily scrutinized, so should claims by television broadcasters attempting to pull off the same trick.

DishNetwork did not respond to requests for clarification on their statement.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1601

 

[syphix]

Well......they're right.

At least in DirecTV's press release it said:

...later this year, DIRECTV will begin offering movies in 1080p, the highest resolution format available for HD video enthusiasts and the same
format used by Blu-Ray HD DVDs.

...not "the same quality", just "the same format".

 

[bruinfever]

Well Said....

 

[mlb]

In theory I think they could have the same quality... the key would be the fact that the box will download the full movie before you can view it. Hence, they wouldn't necessarily have to compress it, and they won't be streaming it, so they could get the full 20+mbit bit rate.

That being said, it would eat up so much hard disk space that Dish would never do it.

 

[rey_1178]

In theory I think they could have the same quality... the key would be the fact that the box will download the full movie before you can view it. Hence, they wouldn't necessarily have to compress it, and they won't be streaming it, so they could get the full 20+mbit bit rate.

That being said, it would eat up so much hard disk space that Dish would never do it.

Welcome mlb! nice to see you here :welcome_s

 

[mlb]

Appreciate it Rey. Now that I've got to D* this place seems to be a little better for coverage...

 

[Stuart Sweet]

Oh, that statement's gotta sting the Dish PR folks. But it is still very vague. Certainly there will be Blu-Ray transfers that are the same quality as Dish's 1080p movies, and it's not like Dish said, "As good as the best Blu-Ray disc."

That there, is what you call marketing.

 

[smiddy]

they rag on sats blu-ray comparisions for video/audio:

Dish Network announced this morning that they would soon be offering a total of 114 national HD channels, and to celebrate the announcement they would, starting tomorrow, offer the Will Smith film 'I am Legend' in 1080p as a pay-per-view offering. They went further to suggest that because it was 1080p, the presentation would be "same as Blu-ray Disc quality". Of course, anyone with a Blu-ray player knows this definitely can't be true.

While both satellite broadcasts and Blu-ray movies can display 1080p video, the similarities end there. In order to conserve broadcast space, companies like DishNetwork and DirecTV will limit video bitrate to less than half of what a typical Blu-ray title requires for perfect video reproduction. This often results in pixelation during scenes with a lot of movement, which is definitely not a characteristic of Blu-ray.

Video aside, audio is something that can't even compare. Even the best satellite broadcasts only use 5.1 Dolby Digital for audio soundtracks. These tracks are easily trumped by PCM, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio often found on Blu-ray discs.

The fact remains, neither satellite, cable, fiber-optic, nor any other broadcast medium can compare to the high definition experience of Blu-ray. The bogus statement made by DishNetwork only adds to consumer confusion about high definition offerings and is a desperate attempt to ride on Blu-ray's coattails. Much the same as claims of "high definition" digital downloads must be heavily scrutinized, so should claims by television broadcasters attempting to pull off the same trick.

DishNetwork did not respond to requests for clarification on their statement.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1601

This is easy to say, but where is the substantiation (on video)? Theoretically they can be the very same. A BD uses compression too to put all that video on the disc...there is in most cases enough bandwidth on a transponder to be able to transmit compressed video. I don't get the statement, there needs to be some numbers and technical discussion to substantiate it further.

 

[dcowboy7]

& what about the sound ? these receivers cant do true hd audio can they ?

 

[Redlinetire]

This is easy to say, but where is the substantiation (on video)? Theoretically they can be the very same. A BD uses compression too to put all that video on the disc...there is in most cases enough bandwidth on a transponder to be able to transmit compressed video. I don't get the statement, there needs to be some numbers and technical discussion to substantiate it further.

Exactly. Until something is actually broadcast and someone decodes the stream and posts some results, who knows what it will be.

For some reason they seem to take the announcement personally, like Blu-Ray is their child and Dish just threw mud in its face.... :lol:

 

[cartrivision]

Oh, that statement's gotta sting the Dish PR folks. But it is still very vague. Certainly there will be Blu-Ray transfers that are the same quality as Dish's 1080p movies, and it's not like Dish said, "As good as the best Blu-Ray disc."

That there, is what you call marketing.

Poor marketing if you ask me. Dish did say that their 1080p was "same as Blu-ray Disc quality", which implies matching typical Blu-Ray quality... a level of quality that Dish most likely won't match.

 

[hasan]

Poor marketing if you ask me. Dish did say that their 1080p was "same as Blu-ray Disc quality", which implies matching typical Blu-Ray quality... a level of quality that Dish most likely won't match.

I think you are most likely correct. On the other hand, I don't care much one way or the other. 720p and/or 1080i HD are already so good, it's hard for me to get stirred up either way. I can see a clear (but not overwhelming) difference between NFL-ST HD football on sat versus the same game OTA-HD. (OTA being superior, of course.)

I await November (nearly TWO YEARS later than originally promised) to do a direct network comparison of HD-LIL (Transcoded MPEG-4) versus HD-OTA. (direct MPEG-2). I will be most impressed if the MPEG-4 local HD via sat is equal to the MPEG-2 via OTA. (It can't be better, at this point).

Nevertheless, I'm very impressed with the new MPEG-4 channels when I compare them to the MPEG-2 equivalents on the same TV. MPEG-4 looks quite good. Again, it isn't night and day, but it is discernable....and that is good news, considering the savings in hard disk space when recording.

 

[hdtvfan0001]

The only thing 1080p on Dish is going to do is further skew their compression results for HD...those expecting a noticable better image will be in for a big disappointment.

 

[hasan]

The only thing 1080p on Dish is going to do is further skew their compression results for HD...those expecting a noticable better image will be in for a big disappointment.

That very same thought has been lurking in the back of my itty-bitty-brain, ever since I saw both D* and Dish tout 1080p. Part of me hopes it doesn't catch on, as I'm sure the rest of us will end up paying for it with reduced available bandwidth.

 

[spartanstew]

& what about the sound ? these receivers cant do true hd audio can they ?

Aren't you the OP? That point was already made by you.

I agree with what blu-ray is saying (video and audio), but there's a couple of things to remember that don't necessarily apply to members here, but will apply to the average Blu Ray consumer:

1. The average consumer will not notice the difference because they sit too far back from their 42" screen and their displays aren't calibrated anyway.
2. The average consumer will not be taking advantage of the lossless audio, because most will probably be using optical connections (or, even sending the sound to the display).

Now, it can be said that the average consumer won't notice the difference between 720p (or 1080i) and 1080p either, but they'll "feel" like they're getting the best with 1080p.

 

[syphix]

Now, it can be said that the average consumer won't notice the difference between 720p (or 1080i) and 1080p either, but they'll "feel" like they're getting the best with 1080p.

Then just tell them they're getting 1080p. I'm guessing just telling them it's 1080p would make them think it looks better.

 

[Alan Gordon]

This is easy to say, but where is the substantiation (on video)? Theoretically they can be the very same. A BD uses compression too to put all that video on the disc...there is in most cases enough bandwidth on a transponder to be able to transmit compressed video. I don't get the statement, there needs to be some numbers and technical discussion to substantiate it further.

I have MANY Blu-ray discs which have an average bitrate in the 20s and 30s... with peaks going into the 40s. This is USING MPEG4 encoding (AVC/VC1).

I just really don't see Dish Network (or DirecTV) setting aside that much bandwidth even for pushed VOD.

Josh had the exact same thoughts that I had.

~Alan

 

[bobnielsen]

1-2 channels per transponder? No way!

 

[spartanstew]

Then just tell them they're getting 1080p. I'm guessing just telling them it's 1080p would make them think it looks better.

You're absolutely right.

Heck, look how many people have HDTV's and think they're getting HD, when in fact they've never upgraded their cable/sat boxes.

My dad (70 years old) got a new HDTV last summer. Up until a recent visit I made to Michigan to see him, he thought his upconverting DVD player was providing HD.

 

[hdtvfan0001]

I have MANY Blu-ray discs which have an average bitrate in the 20s and 30s... with peaks going into the 40s. This is USING MPEG4 encoding (AVC/VC1).

I just really don't see Dish Network (or DirecTV) setting aside that much bandwidth even for pushed VOD.

Josh had the exact same thoughts that I had.

~Alan

I have about 20 myself...that was my previous reference point..they already compress the daylights out of their HD channels at Dish now....not only don't they have much to spare, but what they have is already inferior....AND.....they have less channels to boot.

1080P on Dish?.....what a joke.

Calling Pt Barnum....calling PT Barnum....