[the2130]

On another note, tomorrow morning's Denver-Jax game is streaming-only, on ESPN+. That means you can't DVR the game - you have to be up when it starts at 9:30 a.m. ET in order to watch it.

 

[the2130]

With NHL, ESPN+ offers replays that appear shortly after the end of the match. I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that exclusive NFL games would be treated similarly.

The downer is that you must have an ESPN+ subscription of some sort.

By the end of the morning game, it will be time for the afternoon games to get started. And since the Rams are on the local channel at 4:25 p.m., I have to watch to watch the 1:00 p.m. game live on the same channel in order to ensure I don't miss the start of the late afternoon game. I have the Hulu/Disney+/ESPN+ bundle, so at least I can watch the game. And once the game is underway, there is limited DVR functionality, which is better than nothing.

 

[the2130]

Those that can read know what has been published about the agreements starting in 2023.

You shouldn't believe everything you read. Details of NFL contracts are not made public, and whatever you've read may not be true.

 

[the2130]

How about an NFL press release? Not true enough for you? Re-reading the press release it does not mention blackouts, which may be part of Apple's problem with the ST package.

CBS will maintain rights for AFC coverage -- which dates back to 1998 -- of Sunday afternoon games and will simulcast on Paramount+, its flagship streaming service.​

​

ESPN will continue to be the home of Monday Night Football, while ESPN+ subscribers can stream one International Series contest on an exclusive national basis each season. ESPN can also simulcast all ABC and ESPN games on ESPN+.​

​

FOX will also maintain its NFC package of Sunday afternoon games, which started back in 1994, though it has expanded digital rights to including its AVOD streaming platform, Tubi, to deliver NFL content on digital platforms.​

​

NBC will continue to air Sunday Night Football and will simulcast games on Peacock, the NBCUniversal streaming service. Peacock will also air an exclusive feed of a select amount of games over the span of the agreement.​

In relation to Sunday Ticket, that leaves Apple with making a deal with the established Paramount+ network and Fox if they want to stream games where the NFL has sold the rights to each broadcast network. NFL ST (1994-2022) is only for Sunday afternoon games not on the broadcast network in each market.

That press release only tells you which networks will be airing which packages of games. It doesn't reveal any contract details regarding the broadcast restrictions the NFL enforces with regard to Sunday Ticket. Those network contracts were negotiated only a couple of years ago, at a time when the NFL knew it would be negotiating with other companies for a new Sunday Ticket contract. Your conclusion that Apple would have to make a deal with Paramount or Fox in order to change any of the broadcast restrictions the NFL enforces in its current deal with DirecTV is based on information you don't have.

 

[the2130]

Not sure why people are talking about Fox getting bought out, is there some rumor I missed? Yeah Murdoch is old but his children have all been involved with running it or pieces of it at various times so it doesn't seem likely they'd simply want to sell when he dies. At least not without some big ugly fight between them lasting years in the courts in the US, UK and Australia.

Now maybe they'd want to sell off further pieces of it and the sports division and/or broadcast network might get sold off if they want to get back to Rupert's original focus on "news". But as you say, the current contracts would be held by the buyer, it isn't as though the NFL would suddenly announce the NFC piece of Sunday afternoon rights is up for bid again.

It's called uninformed speculation.

 

[the2130]

My conclusion is (as the NFL has clearly stated) that they have sold the streaming rights to the games to the networks listed. The NFL has been good about not double selling rights and the contracts noted take effect at the beginning of the 2023 season (after the end of NFL ST exclusive on DIRECTV). My speculation is that the broadcast network's transmissions via streaming will be limited to markets where the games are on OTA affiliates (ESPN+ and Peacock not being limited since they carry nationwide games).

If Paramount+ and Tubi are allowed nationwide streaming of every game then NFL ST is dead starting next year. At least as an "out of market game package".

NFL Sunday Ticket is (current tense) Sunday afternoon games broadcast by CBS or Fox delivered to markets where neither CBS or Fox is delivering that specific game over the air. The NFL was fully aware that the DIRECTV contract was coming to an end when the negotiated the new contracts with the broadcasters that will allow games on ESPN+, Peacock, Paramount+ and Tubi (or whatever each network uses for a streaming service). The NFL has made it clear that they expect NFL Sunday Ticket to be taken over by a streaming service such as Apple or Amazon.

At this point it is apparent that no company has agreed to carry NFL ST under the restrictions the NFL is asking for for the price that the NFL is asking for. I do not expect the NFL to go back to CBS and Fox and modify their multi billion dollar contracts. So IF the sticking point is following restrictions similar to the ones DIRECTV is following now (blacking out carriage in markets where CBS or Fox is airing each game) Amazon will need to deal with the companies that paid for those rights.

There is nothing in the material you quoted from the NFL that even mentions Sunday Ticket, let alone provides details of blackout restrictions in the NFL's contracts with the networks. Once again you are making assumptions based on information that is not publicly available. Most of what you stated is simply speculation, not fact.

 

[the2130]

The NFL would need to approve any extension of the agreement made by the winning bidder. For example, DIRECTV was the winning bidder for the contract ending this year and they were unable to extend carriage to AT&T TV / DIRECTV Stream subscribers. I expect that the NFL would allow the content to be delivered via "a satellite carrier" to businesses (not specifying which carrier in case DIRECTV ceases to exist by 2033). I do not expect the NFL to give anyone carte blanche permission to resell ST without strict restrictions.

That depends on how the contract is written. It is still being negotiated (as far as we know), which means there isn't any way to know if what you are saying is true. You are assuming that any new contract would have exactly the same provisions as a previous contract.

 

[the2130]

Many of these rumors about new bidders for Sunday Ticket probably originate with the NFL. The bidding is stalled at least in part because of what they are trying to peddle - a swiss-cheese slate of games where viewers can't be sure of which games they will be able to watch. An example is last Sunday's featured game between the Rams and Chiefs, which was carried on local TV in most of the country. Only viewers in the LA and KC markets got to see the start of the game, which was overrun by "bonus coverage" everywhere else. DirecTV would normally unblock the Sunday Ticket channel, but in this case they didn't. They were either asleep on the job or they didn't have anyone monitoring over the holiday weekend.

 

[the2130]

So either Amazon or Google/Youtube. While I was hoping Apple would have gotten it, I can see Google getting it and adding it as part of YouTube TV (which I have). I don't see the NFL loading everything into Amazon, but if the price is right and they say the right things to Rodger, they could wind up with it all.

Highly unlikely a Youtube TV subscription would be needed to get Sunday Ticket. That would severely limit the number of subscribers, as well as limiting Google's ability to recoup the cost of the package. Youtube TV has far fewer subscribers than DirecTV, which isn't even bidding on the package.

 

[the2130]

Regarding yesterday's games on NFL Network, only fans in the local markets got to see the first quarter of the Baltimore-Cleveland game at 4:30. The early game went into overtime, and they chose not to use the alternate channel for the start of the 4:30 game. I suppose the NFL sees it as an opportunity to sell NFL+ subscriptions, but what's the point of having an alternate channel if it isn't used in a situation like this?

 

[the2130]

If it's available through Youtube Primetime Channels, that means no Pay TV or other subscription will be required - just the cost of the Sunday Ticket subscription itself.

 

[the2130]

I canceled my DirecTV service today. I said "Cancel service" when prompted, which got me to the loyalty department. The CSR asked me if I was canceling because of Sunday Ticket, which I am. My service will end on February 2, at the end of the current billing cycle. I have until February 23 to return my two DVRs, which I can do by dropping them off at a UPS Store and giving them my DirecTV account number (the other option was to have DirecTV send me a box and shipping label). The whole process took only a few minutes.

I also signed up for YouTube TV, which is offering a free 2-week trial and $10 a month off for the first three months. The interface will take a little getting used to, but the picture quality is excellent. The 3-week overlap will give my wife time to get used to it and also get caught up on her Hallmark and GAC Family DVR recordings. GAC is not in the YouTube TV lineup, so I'll also be signing up for Frndly TV.

 

[the2130]

Only 10% of DirecTV's customers ever paid for ST.
Die hard football fans had 20+ years to figure a way to get DirecTV and subscribe. And either did or lived without it.
Cable customers have been happy to either buy or live without NFL RZ.
Over 40% of this season's 272 games were available without ST.

So, with all that......

Is John Ourand right?

John Ourand: Only Winners in YouTube TV-Sunday Ticket Deal Are NFL, Companies Who Didn't Get Rights

NFL fans across the country rejoiced when it was announced that Alphabet Inc. had acquired the rights to the league’s out-of-market games package NFL Sunday Ticket to put on YouTube TV. The league was deep into …

thestreamable.com

Sounds like Ourand thinks he knows more than Alphabet execs. They wouldn't spend $2 billion if they didn't think it made sense to do so.

 

[the2130]

Their lineup is pretty good really, but, still missing two key RSNs in the NY Metro, otherwise it's not bad. Without those two RSNs it's a no go for me. The RSN's are WAY more important to me than ST.

The RSNs are a big deal for those who follow in-market sports teams. I follow an out-of-market MLB team, so the effect is minimal for me. With the new balanced MLB schedule for this season, a maximum of 6 of my team's games will be blacked out.

 

[the2130]

I stand corrected on the Sunday night games...my apologies for the strong language there. But again, there are more Sunday afternoon games being televised locally now. We've gone from two many weeks to four on many weeks (this is going to vary according to local teams and where they are playing).

In any event, I think we can agree that it will be interesting to see how Google markets this; how much they charge; and ultimately how many people subscribe.

There are only two weeks of the season when both Fox and CBS have doubleheader coverage. In all other weeks, there are three local telecasts on Sunday afternoon - one network has single coverage and the other has the doubleheader. You can verify that from the 506 coverage maps. If you look at week 18, when both networks had doubleheader coverage in addition to two Saturday games and the Sunday night game, there were still nine games available to watch on NFLST. There are always plenty of games that can only be viewed on NFLST, which is why people subscribe to it.

 

[the2130]

My question ("back in the day") was if a game was blacked out from local TV due to not being sold out would it air on NFL ST in that market? I think not.

If a game was blacked out on local TV due to not being sold out, it was also blacked out on NFLST.

 

[the2130]

NFLST was, and will probably remain for the foreseeable future, an out-of-market product. It doesn't seem reasonable to speculate that it might carry a local game under any circumstances, much less one that was blacked out.

If you have YTTV, you will get all of the Sunday games, either on a local channel or on NFLST.

 

[the2130]

That should say "if you have the Google/YouTube NFL Sunday Ticket package (along with a way to receive local channels)." By all accounts, it will be something separate from YTTV.

Youtube TV includes local channels. If you have YTTV and subscribe to NFLST, you will have exactly what I said - access to all of the Sunday games. And Youtube has already confirmed that YTTV subscribers with NFLST will be able to DVR the games, which means it will not be "separate from YTTV" for those subscribers.

 

[the2130]

That was after the NFL allowed sold-out games to be televised locally. I was referring to the days before that when all home games were blacked out. No exceptions.

Legislation passed by Congress in the early '70s is what stopped the blackouts of all home games, including the playoffs and Super Bowl. The NFL opposed the law but had no choice but to comply. The law was allowed to expire after three years, but the NFL kept the policy in place and local games continued to be televised as long as they were sold out 3 days in advance. It was only in the past few years that the NFL stopped blacking out games that are not sold out.

 

[the2130]

One advantage of getting NFLST with YouTube TV that I'm looking forward to is being able to DVR every game. With DirecTV, I could only record as many games as I had available tuners on the DVRs. I also won't have to shuffle other programming on Sunday evenings to work around recording conflicts, since there is no limit to how many programs can be recorded at the same time.

In the 6 days I've had YTTV, I've barely noticed the lack of channel numbers in the guide. I have all of the channels arranged so that the ones we watch are at or near the top of the list, and pressing the down arrow while watching a program displays recently watched channels. Also, I can access both live and recorded programs from any of my devices, unlike DirecTV. In addition, I have full access to all of the channels and full DVR functionality from any device. The current DirecTV mobile app doesn't have any DVR functionality and is missing some of the channels, and the old app didn't allow fast-forwarding through commercials. On the whole, I have found Youtube TV superior to DirecTV, and at a much lower cost.