[mogulman]

Ok.. Channels I Get poll... As everyone already knows.. Channels I Get is supposed to be a dedicated favorite list that just shows the channels that you subscribe to. It does not limit the channels that are shown when you do a Search or Autorecord. The feature has been problematic since the HR-2X DVRs first came out, as it tends to show channels that people don't pay for. It also includes PPV channels and XM Channels.




I'm just wondering, if the feature "Channels I Get" was working, would you use it? IE.. If it really showed what I think DirecTv intends, which is to show all subscribed channels+PPV+XM, would you use it?

Would you rather have a dedicated favorite list, call it "Channels I Want", that is manually created? You could create a list of channels that you subcribe to, that you actually want to watch. Then you could use Search and Autorecord with the channels being limited to this "Channels I Want" list.

Maybe you want both (ala Tivo). You want to have a list of channels that you subscribe to, "Channels I Get". Then you want to use this list to be able to pick your favorite lists. Then maybe one of those lists can be used as a "Channels I Want", and then Searches and Autorecords will just use this "Channels I Want" list.

Finally, maybe Channels I Get has been broken for so long, that you just don't care anymore because you have found ways to work around it.

 

[dcowboy7]

for now as is....lets just get it to work 1st.

 

[Ken S]

Unless the search engine and ARSL work with it CIG while not useless it's a far cry from being a function worthy of all the time, effort and programming resources we're to believe have been poured into this project..."The Mother of all Development Projects".

 

[inkahauts]

Ok.. Channels I Get poll... As everyone already knows.. Channels I Get is supposed to be a dedicated favorite list that just shows the channels that you subscribe to. It does not limit the channels that are shown when you do a Search or Autorecord. The feature has been problematic since the HR-2X DVRs first came out, as it tends to show channels that people don't pay for. It also includes PPV channels and XM Channels.

I'm just wondering, if the feature "Channels I Get" was working, would you use it? IE.. If it really showed what I think DirecTv intends, which is to show all subscribed channels+PPV+XM, would you use it?

Would you rather have a dedicated favorite list, call it "Channels I Want", that is manually created? You could create a list of channels that you subcribe to, that you actually want to watch. Then you could use Search and Autorecord with the channels being limited to this "Channels I Want" list.

Maybe you want both (ala Tivo). You want to have a list of channels that you subscribe to, "Channels I Get". Then you want to use this list to be able to pick your favorite lists. Then maybe one of those lists can be used as a "Channels I Want", and then Searches and Autorecords will just use this "Channels I Want" list.

Finally, maybe Channels I Get has been broken for so long, that you just don't care anymore because you have found ways to work around it.

Ok, first thing I need to mention... Autorecord does work according to CIG and only records programs that are listed in the CIG list. This has been working properly for many months. The problem is that there are still a few channels that are not yet properly coded into the CIG system. So that part of your statement is incorrect at this time.

They will never keep you from seeing all results in a basic search based on channels you do or don't get... Tha's marketing for you... They want you to see what your missing so you'll add more programing. There is a way around that though, which I note later.

You can create Favorites lists based off of your CIG list now. (again, will be more useful when they get the last couple channels fixed, but even today is very useful to me)

You can create 2 favorites lists today, but I would like to see it increased to 10 or more.

As for setting up ARSLs so that they only choose from certain channels to record, (i.e. your asking for the ability to create a specific channel list that will be used in looking for programs to record) that actually exists now as well... Look into using boolean and advanced search words. So the capabilities you are asking for exist right now... The key is that at some point, I'd like to see Directv create a better gui for using these functions and making them simpler for a customer to use them. That's what I would like to see. They are easy for me to understand, but if I tried to explain how t use them to my mom... well lets just say its easier for me to go over there and create them myself...

And to your point of tivo... ah yeah, that is exactly what we have now and is the intent of CIG and favorites lists. Only real difference is that they want your CIG to actually be your CIG, rather than what you think or want it to be. Its just a matter of getting those last few channels listing properly.

 

[Ken S]

Ok, first thing I need to mention... Autorecord does work according to CIG and only records programs that are listed in the CIG list. This has been working properly for many months. The problem is that there are still a few channels that are not yet properly coded into the CIG system. So that part of your statement is incorrect at this time.

They will never keep you from seeing all results in a basic search based on channels you do or don't get... Tha's marketing for you... They want you to see what your missing so you'll add more programing. There is a way around that though, which I note later.

You can create Favorites lists based off of your CIG list now. (again, will be more useful when they get the last couple channels fixed, but even today is very useful to me)

You can create 2 favorites lists today, but I would like to see it increased to 10 or more.

As for setting up ARSLs so that they only choose from certain channels to record, (i.e. your asking for the ability to create a specific channel list that will be used in looking for programs to record) that actually exists now as well... Look into using boolean and advanced search words. So the capabilities you are asking for exist right now... The key is that at some point, I'd like to see Directv create a better gui for using these functions and making them simpler for a customer to use them. That's what I would like to see. They are easy for me to understand, but if I tried to explain how t use them to my mom... well lets just say its easier for me to go over there and create them myself...

And to your point of tivo... ah yeah, that is exactly what we have now and is the intent of CIG and favorites lists. Only real difference is that they want your CIG to actually be your CIG, rather than what you think or want it to be. Its just a matter of getting those last few channels listing properly.

So, it's called marketing when you offer to sell porno to children?

 

[mogulman]

As for setting up ARSLs so that they only choose from certain channels to record, (i.e. your asking for the ability to create a specific channel list that will be used in looking for programs to record) that actually exists now as well... Look into using boolean and advanced search words. So the capabilities you are asking for exist right now... The key is that at some point, I'd like to see Directv create a better gui for using these functions and making them simpler for a customer to use them. That's what I would like to see. They are easy for me to understand, but if I tried to explain how t use them to my mom... well lets just say its easier for me to go over there and create them myself...

Yeah.. The boolean stuff is useless to me (or rather most of my family). No way I'm going to bother trying to explain that to my family. Unless DirecTv wants to create a tutorial, have someone come over and train my family personally, and then have some kind of hands-on with a certification test, there is no way it is going to be used.

 

[inkahauts]

So, it's called marketing when you offer to sell porno to children?

:hurah:

Not what I meant, but I hear ya... Reminds me of how cigarette companies no longer can advertise the way they used to for that exact reason...

I don't have kids yet, and I know you are all over Directv for Parental controls, and I am glad you are.. I won't learn how to use them till I have kids someday, but I think they may be better just because of you. Let me ask you this... With the right Parental controls set doesn't the unit hide all MA stuff from view, including PPV porn? The titles and the descriptions that is? Just curios...

I was getting at the fact that if your searching for shows with tommy lee jones in them and there are some on a movie channel you don't get, they want you to see that if you buy that package you would be able to get that movie... Never meant for it as a way to sell porn, although I doubt you really thought that's what I meant...

And don't get me wrong, I don't think searches should give you results for channels you don't get either, and you should have an option to exclude PPV programs from all searches in Parental controls as well, IMHO.

 

[inkahauts]

Yeah.. The boolean stuff is useless to me (or rather most of my family). No way I'm going to bother trying to explain that to my family. Unless DirecTv wants to create a tutorial, have someone come over and train my family personally, and then have some kind of hands-on with a certification test, there is no way it is going to be used.

I believe that Directv will come out with an entirely new GUI for searches with Boolean words, that will be easy to use for any common user... I think the way it is set up now was more of a way to add the functionality and start refining certain things in regards to ARSLs...

With that said, how often do you need to set up that kind of recording? If you just need to set it up once, for several things, even if there are no programs on right now, hey tell me what your trying to do, and I'll tell you how you can imput it. Then just don't erase it. Once its set, its set!

 

[Grentz]

I just use a custom fav list as it is. Does not solve some of the issue as far as the receiver searching on channels I dont get, but so far it works well.

I hate scrolling through all those worthless channels!

 

[Ken S]

inkahauts,

There are holes in their Parental Controls. None so great that the actual objectionable content can be views (that I have found), but the titles can often be seen, the channel names can often be seen and the content can be recorded/downloaded (although not viewed).

There's an easy way around this, but it comes back to the same issue asked for here...Give parents the ability to completely block any channel they want. Meaning the channel doesn't appear in the guide...doesn't appear in searches. In other words it's just gone. I could then "create" a DVR which could be safely used by a child. From what I understand Dish and Tivo both have this capability (I have not seen it.).

But...just so you can understand...I did a real quick test this morning...I put ALL parental controls on to full (all ratings blocked for TV & Movies and Unrated Blocked) and Adult Channel Block was on (Which still has the bug of blocking any TV-MA programming on any channel). My network is unplugged so I can't possibly download and On Demand content and the spending limit is set to $0 so PPV wouldn't be an option.

I did a keyword search on SEX...and here's a picture of what I saw. Now, don't get me wrong...is this the worst show in the world? No...not at all. Also, to be cleared...I firmly believe in freedom of speech. I am not asking DirecTV to censor or inhibit any of their customer's rights to watch anything...I just want to be able to control what is made available in my home to my children...whether it be sexual content, violent content, etc and that includes titles and show descriptions. While this is a bit off of Channels I Get...it's basically the same issue because it relates to channel blocking...one form just has a password, the other doesn't.

As for my efforts making this function better...I doubt it. At best a few other parents can be alerted to this mess.

:hurah:

Not what I meant, but I hear ya... Reminds me of how cigarette companies no longer can advertise the way they used to for that exact reason...

I don't have kids yet, and I know you are all over Directv for Parental controls, and I am glad you are.. I won't learn how to use them till I have kids someday, but I think they may be better just because of you. Let me ask you this... With the right Parental controls set doesn't the unit hide all MA stuff from view, including PPV porn? The titles and the descriptions that is? Just curios...

I was getting at the fact that if your searching for shows with tommy lee jones in them and there are some on a movie channel you don't get, they want you to see that if you buy that package you would be able to get that movie... Never meant for it as a way to sell porn, although I doubt you really thought that's what I meant...

And don't get me wrong, I don't think searches should give you results for channels you don't get either, and you should have an option to exclude PPV programs from all searches in Parental controls as well, IMHO.

 

[gregjones]

inkahauts,

There are holes in their Parental Controls. None so great that the actual objectionable content can be views (that I have found), but the titles can often be seen, the channel names can often be seen and the content can be recorded/downloaded (although not viewed).

There's an easy way around this, but it comes back to the same issue asked for here...Give parents the ability to completely block any channel they want. Meaning the channel doesn't appear in the guide...doesn't appear in searches. In other words it's just gone. I could then "create" a DVR which could be safely used by a child. From what I understand Dish and Tivo both have this capability (I have not seen it.).

But...just so you can understand...I did a real quick test this morning...I put ALL parental controls on to full (all ratings blocked for TV & Movies and Unrated Blocked) and Adult Channel Block was on (Which still has the bug of blocking any TV-MA programming on any channel). My network is unplugged so I can't possibly download and On Demand content and the spending limit is set to $0 so PPV wouldn't be an option.

I did a keyword search on SEX...and here's a picture of what I saw. Now, don't get me wrong...is this the worst show in the world? No...not at all. Also, to be cleared...I firmly believe in freedom of speech. I am not asking DirecTV to censor or inhibit any of their customer's rights to watch anything...I just want to be able to control what is made available in my home to my children...whether it be sexual content, violent content, etc and that includes titles and show descriptions. While this is a bit off of Channels I Get...it's basically the same issue because it relates to channel blocking...one form just has a password, the other doesn't.

As for my efforts making this function better...I doubt it. At best a few other parents can be alerted to this mess.

This is my only gripe with the parental controls. But it is a significant one. If the show is blocked by parental controls, block the title and program info. It seems that the code now tries to process exceptions and fails miserably.

One could also argue that blocked programs should not be returned in searches. I can see this either way, but it seems it would be more user-friendly to only show results a user can access (also filtering out Channels I Don't Get).

 

[kimi]

So, it's called marketing when you offer to sell porno to children?

Apparently it is, and when I asked about this "feature" I was told that this was an important part of the channels marketing strategy.

:eek2:

 

[ATARI]

Apparently it is, and when I asked about this "feature" I was told that this was an important part of the channels marketing strategy.

:eek2:

And that's why it will never get fixed correctly.

 

[carl6]

I really don't make much use of either (CIG or custom lists), and I almost never do searches - I just use the guide.

However, I do agree that we should be able to either (1) lock out channels on a channel by channel basis (with no limit as to how many) so that they do not appear in the guide, or as search results, and can't be tuned to, OR (2) be able to set a "channels I want" list that accomplishes what was outlined in description 1, so that when it is implemented/activated, you will not see or be able to tune to or find any information about channels that are not included in the list.

The problem is, as others have noted, marketing isn't going to let that happen.

Carl

 

[inkahauts]

inkahauts,

There are holes in their Parental Controls. None so great that the actual objectionable content can be views (that I have found), but the titles can often be seen, the channel names can often be seen and the content can be recorded/downloaded (although not viewed).

There's an easy way around this, but it comes back to the same issue asked for here...Give parents the ability to completely block any channel they want. Meaning the channel doesn't appear in the guide...doesn't appear in searches. In other words it's just gone. I could then "create" a DVR which could be safely used by a child. From what I understand Dish and Tivo both have this capability (I have not seen it.).

But...just so you can understand...I did a real quick test this morning...I put ALL parental controls on to full (all ratings blocked for TV & Movies and Unrated Blocked) and Adult Channel Block was on (Which still has the bug of blocking any TV-MA programming on any channel). My network is unplugged so I can't possibly download and On Demand content and the spending limit is set to $0 so PPV wouldn't be an option.

I did a keyword search on SEX...and here's a picture of what I saw. Now, don't get me wrong...is this the worst show in the world? No...not at all. Also, to be cleared...I firmly believe in freedom of speech. I am not asking DirecTV to censor or inhibit any of their customer's rights to watch anything...I just want to be able to control what is made available in my home to my children...whether it be sexual content, violent content, etc and that includes titles and show descriptions. While this is a bit off of Channels I Get...it's basically the same issue because it relates to channel blocking...one form just has a password, the other doesn't.

As for my efforts making this function better...I doubt it. At best a few other parents can be alerted to this mess.

Ah, I see your issue... I actually went into parental controls for the first time ever and looked around. Yep, I see the biggest hole... completely blocking a channel doesn't actually block it from anything other than watching it... I understand the reasoning behind not allowing you to change the CIG selection, however, for any channel that you select to block in the Parental controls, nothing for it should be shown on screen unless the system is unlockecd. Even recordings shouldn't show up in the playlist from a channel that is blocked unless you unlock the system.

I would think it would also be good to give you an option (when parental controls are turned on and the system is locked) to add a channel to the channels blocked list from the info screen of a channel. i.e., when you press the yellow options button while watching live tv, one option should be to add the current channel to the blocked list. Also, while in the guide, when you hit info on a channel name, the options right now are Tune Now and Done. One should also be Block this channel.

Also, frankly, if you have a type of show set to blocked, its title should show blocked. Period. Even if its R... If its selected to be blocked, then the title should not show. Right now they only block MA ( I realize some feel this is an issue because it will block titles on any channel, but I disagree, because if the channel blocking made a channel completely disappear, I don't think that there would be a reason to block TV-MA or any other rating unless you considered all programing at those ratings levels to be inappropriate). This makes no sense to me. If you say that a program rated at a certain level is to be blocked, then why would you even show the title? I think that if the channel blocked worked to completely make stations disappear, that most people would use just that and there wouldn't be much of an issue...

The other glaring issue I saw today is that there are too many shows that are unrated... I mean, how hard is it to rate the Olympics? I blame that on broadcaster though...

 

[joekun]

I use a customized channels list, and that works for me except that I never know when there are new channels. I wish that when a new channel was added it would automatically add it to my custom list and then if I didn't want it I could remove it once I noticed it. That's the way my ReplayTV always worked and that was perfect for me.

 

[inkahauts]

I use a customized channels list, and that works for me except that I never know when there are new channels. I wish that when a new channel was added it would automatically add it to my custom list and then if I didn't want it I could remove it once I noticed it. That's the way my ReplayTV always worked and that was perfect for me.

Thats the one thing about Replay I didn't like... I'd rather have an alert or email message come over telling me there are new channels, than having them added automatically... With that said, for all the other things Directv does, I can't believe they don't do that..

 

[Ken S]

Ah, I see your issue... I actually went into parental controls for the first time ever and looked around. Yep, I see the biggest hole... completely blocking a channel doesn't actually block it from anything other than watching it... I understand the reasoning behind not allowing you to change the CIG selection, however, for any channel that you select to block in the Parental controls, nothing for it should be shown on screen unless the system is unlockecd. Even recordings shouldn't show up in the playlist from a channel that is blocked unless you unlock the system.

I would think it would also be good to give you an option (when parental controls are turned on and the system is locked) to add a channel to the channels blocked list from the info screen of a channel. i.e., when you press the yellow options button while watching live tv, one option should be to add the current channel to the blocked list. Also, while in the guide, when you hit info on a channel name, the options right now are Tune Now and Done. One should also be Block this channel.

Also, frankly, if you have a type of show set to blocked, its title should show blocked. Period. Even if its R... If its selected to be blocked, then the title should not show. Right now they only block MA ( I realize some feel this is an issue because it will block titles on any channel, but I disagree, because if the channel blocking made a channel completely disappear, I don't think that there would be a reason to block TV-MA or any other rating unless you considered all programing at those ratings levels to be inappropriate). This makes no sense to me. If you say that a program rated at a certain level is to be blocked, then why would you even show the title? I think that if the channel blocked worked to completely make stations disappear, that most people would use just that and there wouldn't be much of an issue...

The other glaring issue I saw today is that there are too many shows that are unrated... I mean, how hard is it to rate the Olympics? I blame that on broadcaster though...

So, do you think this is just bad design that has continued for over two years or something else?

 

[Syzygy]

So, do you think this is just bad design that has continued for over two years or something else?

Something else, I'm guessing...

If they ever were to implement channel blocking correctly, we might be able to prevent searches from listing "Channels I Don't Want" in the results. They wouldn't be able to force us to think about -- and reject -- the recording of PPV titles and unpurchased premium channels over and over again.

Jeez -- the poll didn't stay open long enough for me to find it and vote in it!

 

[MartyS]

Something else, I'm guessing...

If they ever were to implement channel blocking correctly, we might be able to prevent searches from listing "Channels I Don't Want" in the results. They wouldn't be able to force us to think about -- and reject -- the recording of PPV titles and unpurchased premium channels over and over again.

Jeez -- the poll didn't stay open long enough for me to find it and vote in it!

Hmm... interesting thought... maybe that should be an option... rather than using a CIG list, let the user completely block channels that they don't want visible in the guide, in th ARSL, etc.