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Closed Captioning??

4982 Views 27 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  P Smith
Anyone else having issues with the closed captioning? Some times it works and then sometimes the letters are just random letters and symbols.
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What receiver and what channel?
It happens on my HR34- I will need to check the channels.
reubenray said:
Anyone else having issues with the closed captioning? Some times it works and then sometimes the letters are just random letters and symbols.
You have closed caption on through your television and you have the text format mode on. Change this within your TV.
Well if you are using HR34 with HDMI then it may be something else. How is it connected?
I used to constantly have troubles with CC, until I correctly re-grounded everything. CC is a very sensitive feature, be sure your receivers are all properly grounded and of course that your TV's CC is off.
This is a new issue as it worked correctly until about a week ago and my other receiver does the same thing. The closed captioning feature is not turned on the TV/projector, but only the D*receivers. It also happens on most channels and only occurs when the captioning is at the top of the screen due to the show info is at the bottom.

My HDMI connection in the LR/projector goes through my A/V receiver. The HDMI connection in the BR goes straight to the TV.

Edit: Being there was not any reasons nor cures for this I went ahead and did hard reboots on both of my receivers. This appears to have fixed the problems.
I see that I *do* need to come back to DTV if only to get CC testing going. :)
I've seen a handful of issues with CC lately...not sure why...
Is there any consistency to the channels it occurs on? Do you have Digital cc on as well?
My CC garbles periodically as well. Sometimes turning it off and back on again clears it. Other times the problem is in the source. We don't have much leverage.
My D* stuff will be here on Tuesday, so I will be able to do some testing myself, but if either of you can tell me some channels it happens on more often than usual, if that's possible, that would be helpful. :)
So, I slingboxed into a friend's HR34. I note that it only has the new digital closed captioning: DTVCC1 though 6. On my current TiVo I actually leave that off and just use normal CC1. I'd like to see that as an option to see if that solves some CC issues people are having (so long as using CC1 disables the use of DTVCC1 as I've seen conflicts if both are on). I wonder how difficult that would be for DirecTV to institute.
It has been several days since I did hard reboots on the receivers. Everything is working OK for now.
Really? Resurrecting a 3-year old thread?
Yes... We can!

For the past week (of June 2015 and into July), there has been "Poltergeist" remnants of the same text appearing in closed captioning across all channels.
What randomly and frequently (every couple of minutes) appears is:
"We had William Shatner" or some slightly abbreviated versions "We had Wil" or on rare occasions the full sentence:
"We had William Shatner on the line" or "We had William Shatner in the studio"
I can't remember exactly what the full sentence was, but on the rare occasions the extended version showed up it was something similar.

It will pop up in the middle of someone (Not William Shatner and not on any show he was in) talking, and not necessarily triggered by any speech recognition patterns (No one started a sentence with "We had...") so I can't account for it.
It does this on more than one DVR (20's and 21's) and persists after reboot.

More of a very minor nuisance than a problem, but just curious if anyone else using CC has experienced this?
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âêîôû said:
More of a very minor nuisance than a problem, but just curious if anyone else using CC has experienced this?
I have noticed missing letters, words and sometimes whole sentences in closed captioning on my Genie, but on my wireless Genie Mini, the CC is practically flawless, as CC is never perfect. I have checked the very same dialogue in a program where it is consistently missing parts and tried repeatedly to see if it was a one time thing and the same letters and words are missing each time I rerun the passage, and then I go and watch the same part of the program on the TV that the Wireless Genie Mini is connected to and it is all there with nothing missing at all. Really annoying to me and I do not hear dialogue well, as the Genie HR44 is on the mainly used TV while the Genie Mini is in a room that does not get as much use. I do have CC turned off on both TVs in the TV settings. Both are connected with HDMI cables.
The CC shows weird characters on the Genie, HR44. I have an HR24 HD DVR, and the CC works great on all channels. Both TVs are connected via HDMI cables.
CC is not robust. You can see a CC error, skip back, and it will play fine. This indicates that the basic decoder itself is not robust.

Delivery is also not robust. CC arrives as a part of the VANC and is metadata interleaved with the video and audio. Video and audio is fairly robust because it has forward error correction, and because if a macroblock does get dropped, keeping the previous macroblock on the screen until the next one arrives is often invisible. If an audio frame gets dropped, it is muted, so often there may be a dropout that is not audible. Theoretically, FEC is applied to all packets, so it should help when any corrupted packet needs a replacement packet, but I am not sure that ability is baked into FEC the same way that audio frames and video macroblocks are backed up, which may be why when reception is spotty, CC has issues that are not reflected in the video and audio, which still appears OK.

And while it does not appear so, reception is always pretty imperfect, which is the entire idea behind FEC for digital transport in the first place. A number of corrupted packets is normal, but FEC makes that invisible by replacing corrupted packets with duplicates. You can have your reception a little marginal and still get good video this way.

So the takeaway here is to keep that dish optimized. Even if reception is a bit off, video and audio will survive. CC, maybe not so much.

Back to the decoder issue, this thread alone proves that this can go screwy, and that a reboot can fix it. I think CC decoding runs as a software service, so that would make sense that a restart often can fix it.

But bottom line, it is not a well-thought-out delivery protocol for CC, and constantly has errors. Maybe ATSC 3.0 will deal with that a little better, or a better version of DVB. I hope so, because we will all need CC by the time ATSC 3.0 is available.
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That replaying the content or a reboot seems to cure the problem suggests that delivery isn't the issue.
harsh said:
That replaying the content or a reboot seems to cure the problem suggests that delivery isn't the issue.
Yes, when that happens. If it plays OK the second time, delivery is not the issue. Decoding is the issue. I thought that was pretty clear.

But that does not indemnify delivery from being problematic. It is problematic, and often.
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