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You can take any product out there and find reviews on just how good or how bad it is. I have owned many products that I have had few issues with that people say it's garbage and doesn't work or I had this problem and they refuse to do anything. When you can read the next review and it says it's the best product I have ever seen. I have seen MANY people post and say this is a bad product and come to find out they don't own it.

As Donnie said some people like to add fuel to the fire and some of those people are here. I for one don't like reading posts where people do this and add nothing beneficial to the community. I have no problems with negative comments when people have problems, but there is a line and I have watched many cross that line lately.
 

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Go look up almost any computer product out. Motherboards as an example, I know of MANY motherboards that are out there in HUGE numbers by very highend manufactures. You read the online reviews of consumers and you will see plenty of bad reviews some for varying reasons. Same can be said for cars, motorcycles and so on.

As you stated no matter how good a product is there will be bad reviews of it, there will also be good reviews. It's the nature of personal opinion. Yes this product has issues but not all issues cause problems for everyone, which in the computer field is a very common thing.

I'm not sure where you are going with the paranoia angle, I am not paranoid at all. I know some people have issues, I hope they will be fixed for all. Reality just tells me there will never be no problems for everyone. Heck I have a friend who his house was hit by lightning and his PC died. He blamed the PC manufacturer and now talks bad about them. Not sure how is was their fault and by the way I have seen him write bad reviews on placs like BB or CC websites because he doesn't like the company any longer.

tstarn said:
Disagree on your first statement. Sure, you can find individual reviews on either side of the fence, but overall, products that work well and deliver on their promises rise to the top and often reflect the consensus of reviewers. That's why products like Panasonic plasmas and Sony's latest batch of LCOS sets get good word of mouth/reviews. And you will find negative reviews on both, but not the majority.

Fuel to the fire? Because people aren't happy with their HR20s they complain? That just sounds like paranoia. Hope I didn't cross the line. It's not meant to be uncivil, but I just don't agree that every product has good and bad reviews, so on balance they mean absolutely nothing.
 

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HaiChinGow said:
Feel free to delete this post or remove my account if you feel I have crossed the line. I am pretty sure that I am not the only person who feels this way and in time you can weed out the people who are critical of the way that dbstalk and D* handled the issue leaving only the people who give glowing accounts of how nice their units and experience have been.

-hai
I find it quite funny that since I have stated an opinion on something all of the sudden dbstalk as a whole is deleting accounts from anyone who doesn't say great things about every product we have support for. If that where the fact MANY people would not still be here most likely including myself and every other MOD. Before you spout off on things you seem to have little idea on how they work I suggest you do some checking.

I have had disagreements with people on products, users here as a matter of fact but for the most part I respect their opinion. I know what frustration is I have been dealing with BETA as you seem to deem it electronics for many years in my personal and professional life. It's not fun when something you pay for doesn't work like you think it should. I get very frustrated with all of my DVR's at times, my R15 my Tivo's all of them.
 

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matto said:
But what will the preponderance of reviews be like? Are you denying that for a good product, the preponderance of reviews will be good, and vice versa?

Did your friend honestly fault the company for the lightning strike, or was he angry at how they treated him as he tried to get his computer repaired or replaced? They are two very different situations. I don't think you're giving us the full story here, since it conveniently supports your central thesis.
If you need to know the whole story he was hit by lightning and wanted them to replace the computer for free. He stated their product should be able to deal with problem like this since it is a consumer product.

I have seen many very good products that have darn near as many bad reviews as good ones.
 

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tstarn said:
Motherboards? I thought we were talking about consumer electronics products for general purpose use. Anyway, you missed my point: Simply stated, generally speaking, a majority of negative reviews usually reflect a poorly performing product (or one not meeting customer expectations). A majority of positive reviews represent a good product, one people like.

In the case of the HR20s, the majority of reviews at CNET and Circuit City are negative. I think it says something other than there are saboteurs out there poisoning the consensus. Sorry you didn't get the point. I thought you were saying that online reviews were mostly negative, but I do not agree.

One last time, if a product works well, the majority of reviews will be positive. If not, they will be negative. And not only negative experiences are communicated via online review opportunities.

Enough with the circular logic already. Bottom line, if a product gets good word of mouth, it generally will succeed.

The fact that Panasonic plasma TVs get a majority of positive reviews is based on many factors, personal taste being one of them, of course. But it's not because that opinion is 50-50 bad vs. good. It's because it's 90-10 or something like that towards the positive. So far, the reviews of the HR20 online are not even close to that number. It means something, and not just that only the complainers bother to post reviews.
Last I check motherboars where consumer electronics. If you are meaning things like the DVR, well I have read many good and bad reviews for SlingBox, some say it doesn't do what it's supposed to some love it. Heck much like many people here with the HR20 I waited a while before I picked up my slingbox. When I first got it I loved it, then an upgrade happened and I had nothing but problems, then yet another upgrade for it and most of the new problems went away and other things got even better.

My XBox360, has had multiple updates and I have read many horrible reviews on it some by people who are Sony fans and hate anything but Sony Consoles. My X360 has had some issues and those have been addresses. Heck I read the other day that MS released an update for the 360 that caused many of them to become bricks.

Like I said I feel your pain I know some glowing reviews and some bad reviews are out there for almost all products. I read plenty of them both bad and good before I bought my new cellphone but decided to take the chance anyway. I suffer for taking that chance sometimes and other times it's great.
 

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tstarn said:
I'd love to hear about those good products that have as many bad reviews as good. I'd be very interested in the specifics.
Then go look them up. I know my mother in-laws sewing machine which is both consumer and electronic (computer controlled) Brother SE270D had more bad then good on some sites, had more good then bad on some sites and has worked perfectly for her for some time now.
 

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tstarn said:
I just wanted to know which good products were rated 50-50 bad vs. good. To me, if a product is in the 50-50 zone, on balance, it's not a good product. Call me naive.
I think when I first started looking for my SlingBox it was in that zone, since then I think the reviews have gotten better as problems have been addressed.
 

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tstarn said:
As for motherboards, I guess I consider them a specialty computer product, not a general consumer product. At least not one purchased directly. Call me uninformed.
You can walk into almost any major electonics store now and pick them up. We are just splitting hairs though.
 

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HaiChinGow said:
You sir, are quite funny. I have done some checking and you should not make judgement calls in areas that you have not researched more carefully. If you weren't a MOD, I would consider putting you on my ignore list. Earl has talked about deleting users, and/or "giving them a vacation". Other mods, (look back a few posts) have also mentioned censoring or deleting due to views that were not consistent with dbstalk.

here is a quick litmus test for you, how would you feel if you were a D* investor? Would you still feel that the situation was handled correctly by using this proxy (dbstalk) as a method to manage an important release?
YOu are MORE then welcome to put me on ignore. I am not going just by this thread as it has gotten WAY out of hand. I am going by dealing with many users on many subjects here. There are people who have all not agreed with what the mod's think or say and have voiced those opinions and they are all still here.
 

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matto said:
I agree. Motherboards are not a closed system like a DVR. A DVR is a system where all components software and hardware are a known and controlled quantity.
Sort of like the PC that you buy from Dell? Which many people have problems with? Much like a normal PC these DVR's are PC's and have issues just like them. Yes I do agree some of these issues should not have escaped initial testing. In the end as long as they get fixed that what matters.
 

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mcl said:
I must've missed where Circuit City and Best Buy keep them.

If you're referring to Fry's and MicroCenter, they are enthusiast stores as much as mainstream consumer electronics stores. Unless you consider chip carriers and thermistors "mainstream" things any average consumer would buy.

This isn't hair-splitting. You're discussing a product (motherboards) that most consumers never directly deal with. The vast majority of computers purchased are pre-built. The self-built computer market is still considered, even by the vendors, to be an enthusiast/hobbyist market.
Every BB and CC in my area have them, I do not have a Fry's or a Microcenter here. They are in the PC departments.
 

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Earl Bonovich said:
About a year or so ago, Best Buy "toyed" with carrying components (cases, motherboards, processors, power supplies) I think part of that experiment has ended though.
They still have them here. My apologies if they don't in other areas I just assumed that since I see them here and back in Mi where i'm originally from that it was system wide. My mistake if this isn't true.
 

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mcl said:
No, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Computers are general-purpose, "white box" devices with a user-customizeable (and user-screw-uppable) OS, with applications installed by the user.

A DVR is a dedicated, single-purpose "black box" device with no user-customizeable OS, and without end-user-installable applications.

The two are nothing alike, and since I don't believe you're this stupid, I can only assume you're intentionally trying to muddy the waters.

And as far as "what matters", charging your top-tier customer base $300 for becoming unwitting beta-testers and forcing them to remain so for an indeterminate period of time while leaving them without a viable DVR solution is VERY MUCH what matters. not that it's "fixed eventually".

if they want us to beta test this product, and expect us to keep it in its current state, they can darn well refund the money we spent to have the dubious privilege.
When a PC is shipped many of them have issues right out of the box, the OS often needs to be patched to fix issues, Drivers need to be updated.

Yes it can be upgraded and changed it also can run as-is.

You can still get the HR10-250 as a DVR, yes I realize that for some this isn't optimal as they want the MPEG4. Yes I do know the DVR has issues (some have more then others) Yes it needs to be fixed.

I think this thread should be over. We are getting nowhere here and it's just getting deeper and deeper.
 

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mcl said:
Wonder why. Perhaps because motherboards aren't the general consumer goods your fellow moderator is trying to argue they are.
No it's because other stores are buying in higher quantities and are thought of before these stores when looking for these items which in turn hurts their bottom line. Argue all you want, they are both opinions.
 

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This thread is closed it has gotten too far off track and is not going to get back on it. Anyone who would like to comment further on this is more then free to do so in private.
 
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