Diagnose / Repair Defective HR21 Pro

1816 Views 20 Replies 5 Participants Last post by greynolds, Aug 27, 2008

greynolds

Discussion Starter · Aug 15, 2008

I've got a defective HR21 Pro that DirecTV replaced under warranty recently. They didn't include a return label to send the defective one back. I just called them to see if they want it back and after speaking with his supervisor, the CSR said they do not want it back - it's mine to keep.

That was my queue to break the warranty seal and pop the cover off

. The problem with it is that it eventually overheats and then keeps rebooting. If I unplug it for a while to let it fully cool down, it will run fine for a while until it eventually overheats again.

When it's first plugged in, the fans do not spin, so I disconnected the fans from the power supply and checked the voltage that they're getting with my meter. They're both getting around 2.22 volts DC, which doesn't strike me as enough to spin them even at a slow speed. If that voltage is correct, then defective fans would be the culprit and obviously easy to replace.

The bulk of the problems people have been having seem to be focused around defective power supplies, so my first though is that the power supply is probably bad. I suppose it could also be the main board not telling the power supply to give the fans enough voltage, but this seems less likely to me.

Are replacement power supplies available (it looks like it would be a quick 5-10 minute job to swap a new power supply in)? I checked Weakness and they don't list them on their site. If not, does anyone know of a place where I could send the DVR or just the power supply board for repairs (repairing the board is definitely out of my league)?

If I can get it fixed at a reasonable cost, it's well worth it as I can upgrade an old DirecTivo (an HDVR20) with this box.

Worst case is that I've got a free 500GB hard drive and some spare parts for my 2 other HR21 Pro's.

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davring

· #2 · Aug 15, 2008

I would be very wary of a verbal confirmation that you can indeed keep the bad unit. They could have their internal wires crossed and bill you for it later.

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 15, 2008

davring said:
I would be very wary of a verbal confirmation that you can indeed keep the bad unit. They could have their internal wires crossed and bill you for it later.

Yeah, I understand that, but OTOH what am I reasonably expected to do here? When I called last week to activate the replacement, I asked about sending the defective one back and the CSR told me they would send me a box and shipping label for it if it needed to go back. I called tonight and the CSR spoke to his supervisor (I was on hold for a while as they looked into it) and he told me in no uncertain terms that I own the box and they don't want the defective one back. I expressed my concern over them doing just what you say and the CSR said it was noted on my account that I own the box and am not to be charged for it. I don't feel as though I should have to beat their doors down begging them to take it back, nor do I feel I should have to send them an email or write them a letter to clarify the situation. I've done my due diligence.

houskamp

· #4 · Aug 15, 2008

I've seen hard drives overheat and lock them up.. maybe try a different drive..
fans are temp controlled so you may have to have cover on and let it run for a while to see it run..

davring

· #5 · Aug 15, 2008

greynolds said:
Yeah, I understand that, but OTOH what am I reasonably expected to do here? When I called last week to activate the replacement, I asked about sending the defective one back and the CSR told me they would send me a box and shipping label for it if it needed to go back. I called tonight and the CSR spoke to his supervisor (I was on hold for a while as they looked into it) and he told me in no uncertain terms that I own the box and they don't want the defective one back. I expressed my concern over them doing just what you say and the CSR said it was noted on my account that I own the box and am not to be charged for it. I don't feel as though I should have to beat their doors down begging them to take it back, nor do I feel I should have to send them an email or write them a letter to clarify the situation. I've done my due diligence.

After those attempts to return it, I would pop the cover too. What internal temp does it indicate before it shuts down?

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 15, 2008

houskamp said:
I've seen hard drives overheat and lock them up.. maybe try a different drive..
fans are temp controlled so you may have to have cover on and let it run for a while to see it run..

Yeah - I wasn't sure if the fans should spin at all during startup or only once it gets warm enough to need them. There would be no harm in trying a different drive - I happen to have a spare 750GB drive anyway so it wouldn't cost me anything to try.

davring said:
After those attempts to return it, I would pop the cover too. What internal temp does it indicate before it shuts down?

From what I've seen, the internal temp is at around 137 when it starts rebooting. The other 2 that I have are always around 105 or so once warmed up.

houskamp

· #7 · Aug 15, 2008

135 is way too high.. Also, thinking back the fans do spin for a few seconds on bootup..
might have a bad fan controller.. you could always get a diff fan that runs all the time or has internal speed control..
try running it with the top off and maybe a fan pointed at hard drive and see if it stays running..

davring

· #8 · Aug 15, 2008

I have read unsupported threads where 135 degrees is the shut down limit, seems low to me. Both of mine stay right at 127 without incident.

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #9 · Aug 15, 2008

houskamp said:
135 is way too high.. Also, thinking back the fans do spin for a few seconds on bootup..
might have a bad fan controller.. you could always get a diff fan that runs all the time or has internal speed control..
try running it with the top off and maybe a fan pointed at hard drive and see if it stays running..

Given the temps my other 2 Pro units run at, the high temperature of this unit immediately struck me as the problem - the trick is to figure out why it runs so hot and replace or repair the defective component. The fans not spinning are an obvious clue as to why it's getting too hot. Since the fan controller and/or power supply dictate how much voltage the fans get, I would need to use an external power source to change that unless whatever is causing the low voltage can be fixed - I don't believe the fans themselves are the problem. Something I could do is to replace the stock fans with alternative fans and hook those up to an external 5 volt DC power supply (so they don't run at full speed to keep things quiet) and see how things go. To monitor the temperature I would have to reactivate the box on my account so I can get into the setup menu.

Inside, there definitely isn't a separate fan controller - it's either integrated into the power supply board or the main board.

davring said:
I have read unsupported threads where 135 degrees is the shut down limit, seems low to me. Both of mine stay right at 127 without incident.

Given that mine was rebooting at around 135 degrees, it would make sense that it's the shut down limit. If yours are running at 127, I suspect you might have defective units too (keep in mind that my 2 good Pro units stay around 105). Are yours in open cabinets (open front and back) or with a door on the front? How high is the ambient temperature in the room? Mine are in a cabinet with an open back and glass door on the front. I found that if I left the door open, this defective unit would run longer before rebooting. My house has central air, so in the summer the ambient temp is usually around 72.

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davring

· #10 · Aug 15, 2008

One unit is on an open shelf and the two year old unit is in an open front cabinet. I can't imagine two bad units. The temerature will run a couple of degrees warmer if we are not running the A/C, which we do all summer, but in the winter we can get an odd warmer than usual day and they are still fine. Usual temperature in the house is 78 degrees.(warm to you I'm sure, but if I kept my house 68 in the winter, I would be frozen)

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 15, 2008

davring said:
One unit is on an open shelf and the two year old unit is in an open front cabinet. I can't imagine two bad units. The temerature will run a couple of degrees warmer if we are not running the A/C, which we do all summer, but in the winter we can get an odd warmer than usual day and they are still fine. Usual temperature in the house is 78 degrees.(warm to you I'm sure, but if I kept my house 68 in the winter, I would be frozen)

I can easily imagine 2 bad units as I actually had 2 bad units

. I originally bought a Pro from Value Electronics. This was presumably one of the initial batch (no yellow sticker on the back). After a while, it started rebooting and was replaced. I then bought a 2nd Pro through Dave Staab (this was presumably part of the new "fixed" batch as it had a yellow sticker on the back) and it too started rebooting and is the one that was recently replaced. So 2 bad units is not a stretch at all.

We keep the house at around 62 in the winter, so it sounds like you'd be frozen here in the winter

.

houskamp

· #12 · Aug 15, 2008

Just piggy back the fans off the harddrive power..

davring

· #13 · Aug 15, 2008

greynolds said:
I can easily imagine 2 bad units as I actually had 2 bad units . I originally bought a Pro from Value Electronics. This was presumably one of the initial batch (no yellow sticker on the back). After a while, it started rebooting and was replaced. I then bought a 2nd Pro through Dave Staab (this was presumably part of the new "fixed" batch as it had a yellow sticker on the back) and it too started rebooting and is the one that was recently replaced. So 2 bad units is not a stretch at all.

We keep the house at around 62 in the winter, so it sounds like you'd be frozen here in the winter .

I didn't know they were having some problems with Pro. Is didn't think there was much difference internally other than the drive size. To power cooling fans you could tap into the USB.

We conserve our energy in the summer so the A/C is set warmer than you are used to, but we go months on end in the winter with no need for heat or A/C. Yes at 62 I would have the heat on and extra blankets...

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 15, 2008

davring said:
I didn't know they were having some problems with Pro. Is didn't think there was much difference internally other than the drive size. To power cooling fans you could tap into the USB.

There was a recall on the early Pro units for defective power supplies. If yours don't have yellow stickers on the back, they're most likely early units that fall under the recall. Even if they have yellow stickers (based on my experience so far), if they're running that hot, they're most likely defective.

We conserve our energy in the summer so the A/C is set warmer than you are used to, but we go months on end in the winter with no need for heat or A/C. Yes at 62 I would have the heat on and extra blankets...

:lol: - different climates

. That's 62 inside in the winter, not outside - it's usually a lot cooler than 62 outside in the winter up here. If we kept the A/C at 78 in the summer, there are days when it probably wouldn't run enough to keep the air fresh in the house. If we get a stretch of several days where it isn't very humid and it's around 80 (or cooler), we'll shut the A/C off and open the windows. If it starts to get humid or above 85, the A/C goes on.

rickeame

· #15 · Aug 16, 2008

Okay, so perhaps I need to be in this thread. Over the past few weeks, my HR 21 Pro has been spontaneously rebooting while watching TV, recorded shows, whatever -- it reboots, flashes the red light on the front and it forces me to unplug it and then plug it back in again to get it back.

The temp is showing up as 149 when I go into the information screen. That seems high.

houskamp

· #16 · Aug 16, 2008

rickeame said:
Okay, so perhaps I need to be in this thread. Over the past few weeks, my HR 21 Pro has been spontaneously rebooting while watching TV, recorded shows, whatever -- it reboots, flashes the red light on the front and it forces me to unplug it and then plug it back in again to get it back.

The temp is showing up as 149 when I go into the information screen. That seems high.

Way high

rickeame

· #17 · Aug 16, 2008

I was afraid of that. Dang. So, now what?

I have a lot of recordings on there.

houskamp

· #18 · Aug 16, 2008

put a small fan near the vents for now.. but expect to have to replace it..

greynolds

Discussion Starter · #19 · Aug 27, 2008

I just returned from a trip and am on vacation until just after Labor Day, so I've got plenty of time to play around with my bad HR21 Pro.

Houskamp had suggested that a bad drive could cause the unit to over heat. As my fans were never spinning, this seemed unlikely in my case, but I had a WD 750GB that I hadn't gotten around to installing in anything yet, so I gave it a shot. I installed it this morning and powered the unit up with the cover on. Within a few hours, it was up around 135 degrees, so as I suspected this didn't solve the problem.

Next, I took a 12V bench power supply and connect each of the 3 fans to it (I now know there's a 3rd fan under the hard drive). As I expected, the fans all work just fine when supplied with enough power.

So I took a trip to Radio Shack and bought a variable voltage wall-wart power supply (switchable in a range of 1.5 - 12 volts) and a chassis mount power connector. I then disconnected all the fans from the power supply, cut the ends off, spliced longer wires to them, and then connected them to the chassis mount power connector. I mounted the power connector just above the main power input. Before drilling the hole for the power connector, I removed the power supply board so no metal filings from drilling would get onto it. Removing the power supply is an extremely easy 1-2 minute job.

I currently have it running with the power supply giving the fans 9 volts and will let it run over night, but it looks like my overheating problem is solved.

The only remaining concern is whether there might be other problems caused later by whatever is causing the fan controller or power supply to not supply the fans with enough power to spin.

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GGladden33

· #20 · Aug 27, 2008

greynolds said:
I've got a defective HR21 Pro that DirecTV replaced under warranty recently.

How did you get a replacement for the HR21 Pro? They're only available at retailers. DirecTV isn't carrying any inventory of this model. Was your replacement a regular HR21?

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