[rahlquist]

Long discussion going on about the HR22 and its drifting so I am starting this new thread.

Have you ever seen a DVR that had eSATA capability that used the original internal HD and the external HD in concert? Not trying to make a point here, I ask this out of ignorance. I have had many, many TiVos and always replaced the original HD with a larger drive. Never gave a thought to the original HD. Isn't that the same as what we do with the eSATAs? I see no difference.

Now, if the 22 came with a 1TB internal drive and that capacity could be added to a 2TB eSATA, that would be interesting and I could see a point to this ongoing argument. As it stands now, if I were to acquire a 22 I would quickly add a large eSATA and forget about the internal drive.

And therein lies the waste. a 500 gig drive being 100% wasted, running 24/7 doing nothing at all. Maybe since DirecTV listened and gave us the DVR PRO model they would consider one that ships with no drive but has a fold down door with a sata dock in it. These docks are a dime a dozen now like ;

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Products.aspx?C=1346

Just for example.

So the DVR could be entirely HR2x architecture, ships with no drive and an additional flip down door with snap on drive rails similar to what Dell uses.

Pros
Continuous storage upgradability in the field.
Lower /unit cost.
Increased sales?
Upgrade incentive if SD model is also offered to get everyone to MPEG 4 capable DVR's

Cons
Retooling
Would need a power supply capable of surpassing the current needs of drives on the market.
Users would mistakenly order this unit and be upset they need to buy a hard drive.
Potential compatibility issues.

Anyone else got any thoughts or comments?

 

[Jason Whiddon]

Next move should be large solid state drives.

 

[davring]

Would I like the option? Yes, of course. Will it ever happen? I doubt it. The closest we probably will ever get is the E-sata option we have now; it would be nice if the internal drive powered down. I think the best option would be drive portability, which we will never see in its current form. If they could marry the drive to your account, maybe it could be done.

 

[Rich]

Do we even know if the 20/21/22s will run without an internal drive?

Rich

Long discussion going on about the HR22 and its drifting so I am starting this new thread.

And therein lies the waste. a 500 gig drive being 100% wasted, running 24/7 doing nothing at all. Maybe since DirecTV listened and gave us the DVR PRO model they would consider one that ships with no drive but has a fold down door with a sata dock in it. These docks are a dime a dozen now like ;

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Products.aspx?C=1346

Just for example.

So the DVR could be entirely HR2x architecture, ships with no drive and an additional flip down door with snap on drive rails similar to what Dell uses.

Pros
Continuous storage upgradability in the field.
Lower /unit cost.
Increased sales?
Upgrade incentive if SD model is also offered to get everyone to MPEG 4 capable DVR's

Cons
Retooling
Would need a power supply capable of surpassing the current needs of drives on the market.
Users would mistakenly order this unit and be upset they need to buy a hard drive.
Potential compatibility issues.

Anyone else got any thoughts or comments?

 

[Rich]

Next move should be large solid state drives.

About a year ago, BonScott suggested a "virtual hard drive". Is that what you are thinking of? Or something along those lines?

Rich

 

[Stuart Sweet]

I have read so many posts that say the DVR should "just work" that I have to say no to this option. All drives are not created equal and to expect DIRECTV to fully support different manufacturers and capacities would only ensure instability.

 

[Grentz]

Next move should be large solid state drives.

No reason for them really. The cons far outweigh the pros...

-Much more expensive $$ per gb
-Limited Writes...Huge problem on a DVR that writes 24/7
-No real advantage besides possibly cooler running (but not necessarily with 24/7 loads...)

I have read so many posts that say the DVR should "just work" that I have to say no to this option. All drives are not created equal and to expect DIRECTV to fully support different manufacturers and capacities would only ensure instability.

Agreed, from a support standpoint it could become a nightmare.

Directv has given us eSATA to expand our drive space, and I have a feeling that is what they will stick with.

 

[rahlquist]

I have read so many posts that say the DVR should "just work" that I have to say no to this option. All drives are not created equal and to expect DIRECTV to fully support different manufacturers and capacities would only ensure instability.

What if D* had a published compatibility list, obviously the manufs have one they go by?

 

[Jason Whiddon]

About a year ago, BonScott suggested a "virtual hard drive". Is that what you are thinking of? Or something along those lines?

Rich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_drive

Really just a ram drive. Its been hinted that once these become cheaper, they may replace optical media as a distribution means for movies like blu-ray. I like it because its no moving parts.

 

[richiephx]

Considering the cost to add a bigger drive is nominal, I think that D* should consider adding a larger drive and, give the user the ability to add an external drive that works in tandem with the built-in drive and not as a replacement for. If I'm not mistaken, I think the E* HDDVR is capable of doing both. After all, it was implied that D* markets to a more elite clientele. One would think that they would try to beat their less than elite competition.

 

[Jason Whiddon]

No reason for them really. The cons far outweigh the pros...

-Much more expensive $$ per gb
-Limited Writes...Huge problem on a DVR that writes 24/7
-No real advantage besides possibly cooler running (but not necessarily with 24/7 loads...)

Im not saying next week, Im talking down the road. Hdd's are here to stay until then.

BTW, you can already buy them in laptops, and they are faster. Less heat issue and shock resistent. Samsung claims their drives are 6 times more reliable than hdd's.

 

[Rich]

Would I like the option? Yes, of course. Will it ever happen? I doubt it. The closest we probably will ever get is the E-sata option we have now; it would be nice if the internal drive powered down. I think the best option would be drive portability, which we will never see in its current form. If they could marry the drive to your account, maybe it could be done.

Again we see an intelligent suggestion regarding the usage of hard drives within an account. Why can't we get this very important issue brought to the forefront? I've started a couple of threads about this and many people see the value of this capability. And yet, we argue about "bells and whistles" as if nothing else matters. Lose a TB of programming without backup and you'll see how much the ability to use an eSATA on ANY 20/21/22 within an account is worth.

Rich

 

[rahlquist]

it would be nice if the internal drive powered down.

And this should already be in there now. If the DVR detects the eSATA drive it should sleep the internal drive. Nothing fancy, and certainly should be doable! It would cut the heat inside the DVR as well.

 

[rahlquist]

Again we see an intelligent suggestion regarding the usage of hard drives within an account. Why can't we get this very important issue brought to the forefront? I've started a couple of threads about this and many people see the value of this capability. And yet, we argue about "bells and whistles" as if nothing else matters. Lose a TB of programming without backup and you'll see how much the ability to use an eSATA on ANY 20/21/22 within an account is worth.

I think it keeps getting swept under the rug with the hope of MRV set heavily on top of it.

 

[Rich]

Considering the cost to add a bigger drive is nominal, I think that D* should consider adding a larger drive and, give the user the ability to add an external drive that works in tandem with the built-in drive and not as a replacement for. If I'm not mistaken, I think the E* HDDVR is capable of doing both. After all, it was implied that D* markets to a more elite clientele. One would think that they would try to beat their less than elite competition.

AW, do Dish's DVRs allow you to use both the internal and external drives at the same time? And to migrate eSATAs within an account (I did read something about this recently)?

Rich

 

[Jason Whiddon]

AW, do Dish's DVRs allow you to use both the internal and external drives at the same time? And to migrate eSATAs within an account (I did read something about this recently)?

Rich

They started it last summer, charged everyone a fee to activate. D* still doesnt even officially support esata do they?

 

[rahlquist]

Im not saying next week, Im talking down the road. Hdd's are here to stay until then.

BTW, you can already buy them in laptops, and they are faster. Less heat issue and shock resistent. Samsung claims their drives are 6 times more reliable than hdd's.

I think we might be a ways off for this from a life of product POV. Keep in mind that every solid state memory technology has a limited number of write cycles and nothing writes more than a DVR thats powered up. But if they had an open bay and you wanted to stick one in it

 

[evan_s]

AW, do Dish's DVRs allow you to use both the internal and external drives at the same time? And to migrate eSATAs within an account (I did read something about this recently)?

Rich

Dishes solution uses USB drives. It only records to the internal drive. You must manually Archive files to the external usb drive. The drive can be moved to any receiver active on the account.

 

[Jason Whiddon]

I think we might be a ways off for this from a life of product POV. Keep in mind that every solid state memory technology has a limited number of write cycles and nothing writes more than a DVR thats powered up. But if they had an open bay and you wanted to stick one in it

I agree, but they have made them able to last much longer. Think I read 20X's more in the last 5 years.
So they'll get better and cheaper. Im looking forward to it.

Until then, D* needs to officially support ext hdd's and allow as large a drive as you wanna use.

 

[houskamp]

I think the simplest solution would be series of dvrs with different capacities..
and a way to swap for upgrades..
HR21-100-xxx