[jazzyjez]

Most people know about the digital transition next February, fewer know that Wilmington, NC is making the switch sooner - on September 8th, 2008. This is effectively a trial run for the rest of the country. Unfortunately, while the local cable companies have been getting a lot of mileage out of this, DirecTV isn't quite ready with its setup - we're missing one of the main local stations WILM-DT (CBS) from the guide, and therefore unable to receive this digital channel. Admittedly, these guys we're quite late getting into the game, the local ABC, NBC, FOX and PBS have had digital running for quite some time, and are in the guide. And yes, we can get this channel (in SD - i.e. very low def) via DirecTV, but its quality is reminiscent of rabbit-ears reception on a 1970s TV - yep, it's that bad. And yes (again), I could tune to it directly via my TV's ATSC tuner but that's inconvenient – I want a central point for channel selection.

I bring this point up here for 2 reasons:

1) Hopefully someone at DirecTV will read this and take some action (yes, I know it's something to do with Tribune media or someone else, but from my point-of-view it's DirecTV who are the supplier).

2) Yet another reason to change the stupid way DirecTV receivers handle OTA. Time and time again people complain they can only get the channels for which there is guide data present - the setup on my old (and sadly now returned) HR10-250 worked perfectly, why don't they revert to that logic? I normally have nothing but praise for DirecTV, but their OTA handling is pretty poor. I know many people say that they're a satellite service provider and not an OTA one, but that's just shying away from something that could so easily be corrected and be a great benefit.

(end of rant)

 

[EricRobins]

Maybe they will use the coming storm to delay things!

 

[Stanley Kritzik]

Here, D* re-broadcasts in digital NBC, FOX and ABC. All the other channels -- PBS, CBS and Independents are still in "analog land". If the analog stations went off the air, there would be nothing but the three networks.

I have e mailed D* a number of times, but they think I don't know the difference between HD and S. So far, I can't penetrate the fog to get them to understand that these channels have to be switched.

Stan

 

[paulman182]

Here, D* re-broadcasts in digital NBC, FOX and ABC. All the other channels -- PBS, CBS and Independents are still in "analog land". If the analog stations went off the air, there would be nothing but the three networks.

I have e mailed D* a number of times, but they think I don't know the difference between HD and S. So far, I can't penetrate the fog to get them to understand that these channels have to be switched.

Stan

Are you sure? How can you really tell that DirecTV is not using the digital feed for their SD channel? Unless you have some inside info.

In many markets DirecTV is using the digital feed and cutting off the sides to supply our SD local channel.

 

[FHSPSU67]

Are you sure? How can you really tell that DirecTV is not using the digital feed for their SD channel? Unless you have some inside info.

In many markets DirecTV is using the digital feed and cutting off the sides to supply our SD local channel.

Yep, same as me w/ ABC, FOX, CW, WKBS, and PBS.

 

[joed32]

Are you sure? How can you really tell that DirecTV is not using the digital feed for their SD channel? Unless you have some inside info.

In many markets DirecTV is using the digital feed and cutting off the sides to supply our SD local channel.

You're right, all satellite TV is digital.

 

[paulman182]

You're right, all satellite TV is digital.

Thanks, but that's not really what I mean.

DirecTV formerly used the analog signal from our local stations to generate the DirecTV digital SD feed. They are now gradually switching over to the local digital signals as the source for their SD channels, as well as their HD channels if DirecTV offers them.

So if someone is watching an SD local from DirecTV, as of right now the source of that channel could either be the local's digital broadcast, or the local's old analog broadcast. Of course, as you say, they all are digital when they get to us from the satellite, but they don't all start out that way (yet.)

 

[BattleZone]

There are roughly 1500 or more "local" channels that DirecTV has to deal with. It is not their fault if many of them have been dragging their feet on the digital conversion; it's not like folks in the broadcast industry haven't known about this for more than a decade.

It is also not like DirecTV can simply flip a switch from "Analog" to "Digital". Accepting a digital signal requires a whole new infrastructure, with parts installed on both ends. That requires coordination with the local station in question, who may be using up all of their resources trying to get their own broadcast equipment up and running.

The point is: this is a TRANSITION PERIOD, and it is a PROCESS, not an event. The stations that don't follow the schedule will be left behind, and that will NOT be DirecTV's fault, but the local stations. DirecTV has been the single biggest "pusher" of HD and digital transition, but they can't do everything.

I know that may be disappointing when it affects you, but it is what it is. The change to digital broadcasting is by far the biggest change to TV in 60 years, and requires that TV stations scrap nearly their entire equipment investment and start over, plus train everyone. It's a huge deal, and it takes at least a year to complete. Heck, in the Bay Area, there are stations who have been digital and HD for over 2 years that STILL have problems getting their new gear to work right. We experience all sorts of problems, both OTA and via satellite, and those problems are known to originate at the stations. It's a PROCESS.

As you stated, you're in a "trial" area. Trials are never perfect or seamless.

 

[jazzyjez]

Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly enough. I'm not complaining about DirecTV's re-transmission of local channels, rather, I'm bringing up the issue that if they don't have a certain local OTA channel in their guide data, then it's not possible to receive that channel because you cannot manually add arbitrary channels to one of their receivers. This is counter to the way the previous TIVO based receivers operated, and also counter to the way every ATSC tuner works that's part of a TV set or DVD-recorder.
Like many others, we're a lowly DMA and so rely on OTA for high quality locals (both SD and HD). I know it will take a while before DirecTV has our locals in HD via satellite - that wasn't the point of this message, it's purely the OTA handling issue.
Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the Sept. 8th date as that in itself isn't a necessary part of my argument - although that date is a focus that's being widely used by the local cable companies to promote their ability to provide a complete solution. DirecTV has everything I want other than this minor issue, and that's nothing to do with either their or the local stations hardware capabilities, it's simply a mix of administration (channels not being shown in the guide) and software (their receivers' inability to add out-of-guide channels).

 

[bobnielsen]

This is an issue for many people, of course (the non-DVR receivers have scanning capability but DVRs do not). As you mentioned, Directv gets the data from Tribune. Does Tribune show the missing station at http://www.zap2it.com? If not, contact the station and make sure that they are supplying the correct data to Tribune. If it is shown on zap2it, you should contact Directv and let them know that the station does not show up on your HR2x.

 

[jwd45244]

Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly enough. I'm not complaining about DirecTV's re-transmission of local channels, rather, I'm bringing up the issue that if they don't have a certain local OTA channel in their guide data, then it's not possible to receive that channel because you cannot manually add arbitrary channels to one of their receivers. This is counter to the way the previous TIVO based receivers operated, and also counter to the way every ATSC tuner works that's part of a TV set or DVD-recorder.
Like many others, we're a lowly DMA and so rely on OTA for high quality locals (both SD and HD). I know it will take a while before DirecTV has our locals in HD via satellite - that wasn't the point of this message, it's purely the OTA handling issue.
Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the Sept. 8th date as that in itself isn't a necessary part of my argument - although that date is a focus that's being widely used by the local cable companies to promote their ability to provide a complete solution. DirecTV has everything I want other than this minor issue, and that's nothing to do with either their or the local stations hardware capabilities, it's simply a mix of administration (channels not being shown in the guide) and software (their receivers' inability to add out-of-guide channels).

The guide data is provided by Tribune Media Services. The local station must submit the data to TMS. You should contact your local station.

 

[LarryFlowers]

It should be interesting to note that DirecTV and Dish have repeatedly and pointedly begged and pleaded with the FCC to force the locals to put their plans in black and white no later than Dec 1st of this year to allow them sufficient time to do what they need to do.

They are getting no help from the FCC in this regard and even less cooperation from some locals. I can see some locals waiting to the very last minute and leaving DirecTV and Dish scrambling to get it done...

 

[jamieh1]

Go to www.zap2it.com/services/site/zap-feedback,0,6935396.story

there is a section on there to report guide data issues. Follow the instructions.

The subject they request you enter is LINEUP DISCEPANCY.

Enter the channel info, tv provider (directv) all the stations info(address, phone, etc).

I did this for several in my market and they added the info a week or 2 later.
Also email the tv station management and tell them the same thing.

 

[wilbur_the_goose]

Will any of the OTA station channel assignments change? Lucky us in Philly - we have 2 channels going back to VHF

 

[Johnnie5000]

Are you sure? How can you really tell that DirecTV is not using the digital feed for their SD channel? Unless you have some inside info.

In many markets DirecTV is using the digital feed and cutting off the sides to supply our SD local channel.

doing that in chattanooga on our 99/103 locals, ones from the 72.5 are fine. Pillarboxed and letterboxed channels are just ugly and tiny.

 

[jacksonm30354]

doing that in chattanooga on our 99/103 locals, ones from the 72.5 are fine. Pillarboxed and letterboxed channels are just ugly and tiny.

The ones on 99/103 are your HD locals. If the program being shown is not HD you will have bars. You can use the Format button to Stretch/Crop etc so that that particular program fills your screen.

 

[aa9vi]

How about D* monitoring the OTA guide thread? We can help them by reporting issues. I think they addressed the Milwaukee OTA issue, to some extent, within a week's time. However, there are still some hiccups with WMVT. D* and Tribune Media need to streamline the guide reporting of changes, including subchannel reassignment. I hope they do. Has someone on "the inside" pointed both parties to the thread?

Also, how about fixing the channel labels. Scan using a digital receiver and you'll get sensible labels. Here channel 5 has 3 subchannels, one is NBC5-WX and I think another just signed on as NBC-U (the sports subchannel). It would be MUCH MUCH MUCH better if D*/Tribune labeled these stations' names in the guide as they appear from an OTA chanel scan. It makes it much easier for us to tell what kind of programming is on the channel.

If the OTA channel scan was implemented in the new receivers, D*/Tribune Media wouldn't have to be playing catch up all the time either.

 

[BattleZone]

If the OTA channel scan was implemented in the new receivers, D*/Tribune Media wouldn't have to be playing catch up all the time either.

Yes, but then you wouldn't be getting any guide data for those scanned channels, and people would be crying that they KNOW that their favorite show was on that channel but their DVR didn't record it.

In the end, DirecTV made the decision they did for a good reason. You may disagree, but they have to look at the support issues and the associated costs. It is better to not give something to someone than to give them something that doesn't always work, because the former doesn't set up an unreasonable expectation like the latter does.

 

[jazzyjez]

Great news - we've now have 10-1 in the guide and can watch the US-Open Tennis in HD via OTA. (Actually went live around noon Saturday but couldn't log on before now to update everyone.)
Thanks for all the comments - though I think the general point still stands - we really do need channel scan capability!

 

[Kansas Zephyr]

Yes, but then you wouldn't be getting any guide data for those scanned channels, and people would be crying that they KNOW that their favorite show was on that channel but their DVR didn't record it.

In the end, DirecTV made the decision they did for a good reason. You may disagree, but they have to look at the support issues and the associated costs. It is better to not give something to someone than to give them something that doesn't always work, because the former doesn't set up an unreasonable expectation like the latter does.

I think most would rather have all of the OTA channels that the tuner can "see" with, or without guide data.

You can always set a manual record time for OTA without guide data.

I think D* would look better, being able to say that "KWTF has not provided guide data", but at least you can watch it via the IRD.

Plus, some customers have access to more than two market's OTA signals.