[Algie Abrams]

Though the image is 16:9 and the resolutions fall with ATSC for the HD specification, Dish filters out a large percentage of the fine detail information and limits color depth as it is re-compressed to fit within Dish's HD Channels.

HD uncompressed raw data rate i 1.5 Gigabits/sec and is used primarily for production, off air broadcast is significantly compressed to 19.4 Megabits/sec, but still maintains most of the high frequency visual information.

Dish network re-compresses this to the 3-5 Megabit (my eyeball's guess) range. You can notice this in lack of detail in hair on meduim close ups, or as in the banding of colors in gradients. I also see motion vector errors caused by re-compression. In a medium close up, the persons nose, eyes, and mounth will all move, but in a motionless blob of face which is fixed. I haven't seen this effect since a very good mushroom trip in the 1960's.

My eyeball's guess is that dish is delivering something akin to "Extended Definition" which is a 16:9 version of standard defintion. 1920 x 1080 carries 6 times the resolution of Standard definition of 720 x 486. Just because the picture size is large does not mean the image it displays contains all the information your set can display. There is a similar softness to all Dish HD channels.

I just don't see a 6X increase in detail and am disappointed in the quality, and would not reccommend it - but only as a desperate last choice.

They advertise and sell a product that they do not deliver. They count on the untrained eye not to notice. Shame on them.:
:nono2:

 

[Redlinetire]

I haven't seen this effect since a very good mushroom trip in the 1960's.

That pretty much explains all I need to know about your opinion. :lol:

 

[Bobby H]

DishHD sure isn't Blu-ray quality. But it's a big jump above standard definition.

OTA broadcast certainly does seem to have higher bit rates. But those broadcasts are not perfect in quality or similar to Blu-ray quality either. Let's also not forget the fact both ABC and FOX broadcast at 720p resolution instead of 1080i.

Anyone expecting master-grade quality HD or even Blu-ray quality via satellite (or cable, OTA, etc.) really needs a reality check. You make the trade-off for some loss in image quality in return for the wide variety of programming.

 

[braven]

Hope you're wearing your flame suit.

 

[willc]

And what do you think Directv's HD is? It's not 1.5 Gigabites / sec.

Somethings got to give somewhere.

 

[EXTACAMO]

The OP probably works in video production in some capacity and is used to being in dimly lit rooms full of perfectly calibrated displays and signals that are right on the money. I know when I worked in broadcasting years ago I found it difficult to watch TV at home or at a friends house after a day at work. Don't get me wrong I'm not defending him. I can't stand people in any field that throw around techno babble because they think it makes them sound smart. :nono:

 

[EXTACAMO]

That's also one helluva first post.

 

[todbnla]

Have ya seen DirecTV HD?

 

[garys]

Gotta love the use of "My eyeball's guess", I wish my eyeballs were that smart. Does the OP really think anyone could supply that type of HD on all the HD channels. I think we would only see 2 or 3 channels with nothing much else. Even OTA does not supply the signal at that high a resolution.

 

[Carl Spock]

Let me guess, Algie Abrams. Your solution would be to have Dish only offer the dozen HD station you watch, eliminating everything else, and putting all of that extra bandwidth towards your favorites.

And that's only a guess because you don't give a solution to the problem. But I understand why. You can't. Subscribers want HD. They also want a lot of channels. In a marketing war with DirecTV, Dish has to provide around 100 HD channels. If they don't, they lose, period. As someone else said, something's got to give and that's a bit of picture quality.

And you are wrong even with your technical knowledge. Dish's signal isn't "extended definition". EDTV is, by definition, a 480p signal on a 16:9 screen. And complain all you want, but Dish's definition is better than 480p.

May I recommend post #2 be one where you state your disappointment with Dish's HD signal without over-exaggerating and trying to impress folks with technical talk.

Or maybe, bub, it should be a plan to launch your own satellites.

 

[nmetro]

While the HD is not BluRay; I think it is very good. When one can stand in front of a 32" Sony Bravia, using a VIP211 set at 1080i with component video, and read the very tiny numbers on a score board in the background during the Olympics Gymnastics action; I would say that is very good picture quality.

 

[HobbyTalk]

HD uncompressed raw data rate i 1.5 Gigabits/sec and is used primarily for production, off air broadcast is significantly compressed to 19.4 Megabits/sec, but still maintains most of the high frequency visual information.

Actually, most of our local OTA stations also have a number of SD subchannrels so I would guess their "HD" broadcasts are running around 9 Megabits/sec.

 

[DishSatUser]

They advertise and sell a product that they do not deliver. They count on the untrained eye not to notice. Shame on them.:
:nono2:

Just like many quotes over time, "ignorance is bliss". To my untrained eye, it looks fantastic!!!

And, yes, I've viewed HD from many sources. Like others have said, it's not Blue Ray (but if it where, then all those BD players sales would tank), but it still really good.

 

[simulated]

Actually, most of our local OTA stations also have a number of SD subchannrels so I would guess their "HD" broadcasts are running around 9 Megabits/sec.

as you can see, atsc @ 8vsb hovers around 20 mega bits per second ala 6mhz bandwidth. I sometimes can lock a PBS channel, with 4 sub channels, that leave less than 10 mega bits per second for their High def channel, so your guess is on the money.

 

[phrelin]

Though the image is 16:9 and the resolutions fall with ATSC for the HD specification, Dish filters out a large percentage of the fine detail information and limits color depth as it is re-compressed to fit within Dish's HD Channels.

My eyeball's guess is....

I had the same problem on my 16' x 9' panel, but I can't see it on my 42" plasma when I sit on the furniture 7 feet away. So I sold the big panel and settled for my tiny 42 incher.

 

[goldenbear]

Have ya seen DirecTV HD?

Have you seen Comcast HD!

I don't know what real HD technically is, but since it's not possible to see the difference between 720p and 1080p from more than ~7 feet on a 42" screen, I don't really care. At this point, I'd rather these providers give a large quantity of 720p rather than less quantity of 1080p, and that's exactly what they do. And some more than others. Of course there is no 1080p TV programming outside of movies.

Now Dish HD saying their 1080p VOD is the same quality as blu ray... I doubt that. Same resolution, but compressed, yeah.

 

[Nick]

Dish HD is not High Definition

Sit farther away! :lol:

 

[brant]

my dishHD looks great! but I have an "untrained" eye. Some programs aren't as sharp as others, but it sure beats standard definition. Compared to OTA HD, the picture quality I get from dishHD isn't far from it; in fact, its hard for me to tell a difference most times. And that's all that matters to me.

 

[grooves12]

And you are wrong even with your technical knowledge. Dish's signal isn't "extended definition". EDTV is, by definition, a 480p signal on a 16:9 screen. And complain all you want, but Dish's definition is better than 480p.

Actually, I really don't think it is in many cases... people will notice compression errors (macroblocking), loss of detail or blurring in motion or panned shots, and lack of color depth a lot more than they do a loss in resolution.

My picture from a 480p DVD player is about on par if not better than most of Dish's HD...

I think people are so used to the reduced resolution overcompressed SD that they are blown away by reduced resolution overcompressed HD.

I'm not saying Dish's HD is hrrible... but it could get a LOT better. Personally I would be happier if Dish downsampled everything to 720p, kept the bitrate the same, and thus got rid of all of the compression artifacts.

Unfortunately, that is not a solution because then all the stats commandos would be crying up a storm not because they SEE a difference but because TSreader tells them the difference. I mean look at all the people still clamoring for 1080p when it offers absolutely zero benefit over 1080i. Blu-ray does not look better because it is 1080p... it looks better because it has more bandwidth and has better compression algorithms not being limited by having to do real-time compression. It would look just as good with a 1080i signal.

 

[razorbackfan]

Dish HD is not High Definition

...is too!