Eventual use of all 32 transponders at 72.7?

1335 Views 12 Replies 8 Participants Last post by James Long, Sep 4, 2008

tkrandall

Discussion Starter · Sep 3, 2008

Can the do that along with use of 77w?

With only 4.5 degrees (ok, 4.3) separation between 72.7w and 77w, can Dish broadcast CONUS beams to U.S. markets from 72.7 and spots from 77w on Ku using the same transponders without interfering with itself (or with DirecTV while they remain on the other half of 72.5)? Or will they be limited to non overlapping transponders?

I don't know which specific tranponders Dish has use of at each location, but getting use of all 32 at 72.7w is mentioned in at least one their FCC filings. Could they use all 32 at 72.7w and also use 77w at the same time with only 4.5 degrees separation on Ku?

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Jason Nipp

· #2 · Sep 3, 2008

I don't know the answer to your question, but to speculate, I thought they already proved that this wasn't an issue with 118.75 and 119?

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simulated

· #3 · Sep 3, 2008

Jason Nipp said:
I don't know the answer to your question, but to speculate, I thought they already proved that this wasn't an issue with 118.75 and 119?

118.75 uses 11.7-12.2ghz, 119 uses 12.2-12.74, no overlapping

I asked in a previous thread how dish was going to manage dbs birds so close together without interference, mind you my concern was with the nimiq2 (and soon to be nimiq4) bird(s) at 82w, edit: spear61 answered me.

to quote him "ITU assignments for Region 2 originally had Mexico controlling slot 78 for BSS 12.2-12.7. Subsequently, they filed and got that slot changed to 77. Echostar will have to assume responsiblility of non-interference with adjoining BSS satellites or they will not get permit. But, the ITU plan addresses the technical details of that problem. The principle concern would be interference if 72.5 and 82 were using a single dish for reception of both satellites. Echostar will be leasing Nimiq 5 capacity from the Canadians at 72.5 so one can assume that both parties are working together and have a common business interest in making it work."

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1653091&postcount=9
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1653158&postcount=10

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James Long

· #4 · Sep 3, 2008

All 32 at 72.7° and 77° shouldn't be a problem for a properly designed DISH. It looks like we'll be facing 4.5° spacing when 114.5° comes online in a couple of years between 110° and 119° anyways. DISH supports "tweeners" so they should be able to figure out how to make it work.

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alebowgm

· #5 · Sep 4, 2008

Of course, DirecTV needs to finish clearing its programming off of 72.5 and Expressvu needs to decide to lease the 16 even TPs to Dish, and even though it still remains to be seen, that is expected to eventually happen.

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JohnH

· #6 · Sep 4, 2008

alebowgm said:
Of course, DirecTV needs to finish clearing its programming off of 72.5 and Expressvu needs to decide to lease the 16 even TPs to Dish, and even though it still remains to be seen, that is expected to eventually happen.

Is it not a requirement of Canadian authorization that some, perhaps as much as 50% of the bandwidth at these slots be used by Canadian providers?

Of course, at 77 that would be a Mexican concern.

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James Long

· #7 · Sep 4, 2008

It is not. It is a requirement that 50% be made available for Canadian uses, but once the satellite reaches orbit if there is not sufficient Canadian interest the operator is free to lease practically the entire slot to everyone. (I believe they are require to reserve one transponder for Canadian government use. The point is, if Canadians don't show interest the operator is free to lease to anyone.)

Not sure about Mexican law/rules.

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tkrandall

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 4, 2008

And Canada has other slots as well. How many and where? They have at least one at 82w or somethig like that.

Man, I wish the U.S had DBS slots in the 80s and 90s west longitude. That would be sweet.

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JohnH

· #9 · Sep 4, 2008

James Long said:
It is not. It is a requirement that 50% be made available for Canadian uses, but once the satellite reaches orbit if there is not sufficient Canadian interest the operator is free to lease practically the entire slot to everyone. (I believe they are require to reserve one transponder for Canadian government use. The point is, if Canadians don't show interest the operator is free to lease to anyone.)

Is there specific wording to this effect or is this an assumption made because of missing wording?

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James Long

· #10 · Sep 4, 2008

The 50% reservation prior to launch and later release (if there is no Canadian interest) is specific. The "one transponder" is a bit more fuzzy in my mind. Too many threads to reference them all some days.

I'm (half) remembering this from the Canadian license for 129° ... which should be under the same rules as 72.7°. I'll have to do some digging later (unless someone beats me to it).

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spear61

· #11 · Sep 4, 2008

James Long said:
The 50% reservation prior to launch and later release (if there is no Canadian interest) is specific. The "one transponder" is a bit more fuzzy in my mind. Too many threads to reference them all some days.

I'm (half) remembering this from the Canadian license for 129° ... which should be under the same rules as 72.7°. I'll have to do some digging later (unless someone beats me to it).

As I recall it was one transponder on the satellite "or equivalent service". Probably means that one transponder of service could be provided to Gov if needed but at another slot ( there is lots of capacity floating around up there.)

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Mertzen

· #12 · Sep 4, 2008

tkrandall said:
And Canada has other slots as well. How many and where? They have at least one at 82w or somethig like that.

Man, I wish the U.S had DBS slots in the 80s and 90s west longitude. That would be sweet.

Bell ExpressVu uses Nimiq 2 at 82 degrees and Nimiq 1 at 91. Starchoice uses Anik F1R at 107.3°W and Anik F2 at 111.1°W. Of note S* uses both FSS at only 3.8 degrees apart.

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James Long

· #13 · Sep 4, 2008

Mertzen said:
Bell ExpressVu uses Nimiq 2 at 82 degrees and Nimiq 1 at 91. Starchoice uses Anik F1R at 107.3°W and Anik F2 at 111.1°W. Of note S* uses both FSS at only 3.8 degrees apart.

FSS slots are generally 2° spacing (like C band). 3.8° isn't bad (unless someone has the slot between them and the dish design is poor).

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