DBSTalk Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/0002/channelsharing-multiple-stations-on-one-channel/276782

Stations are going to be forced to share spectrum with the highest channel of 31. I wonder what this will do to sub channels? With OTA making a come back, it looks like the FCC is killing it. It used to be channels went all the way to 83, then 69, now 51, and soon 31 as the spectrum is being sold off to cel phones. Right now, most local channels with sub's are carried only OTA or cable, as Dish or Direct do not carry them. Too bad they are notpart of must carry. Where does that leave the industry in the future? Streaming? But this does not look great for OTA TV in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Since Dish does reuse the spectrum for local coverage, adding the sub channels should not be a big undertaking I would not think. They would only have the carry the ones that the main channels they carry and not tons of translators, etc. That way we would all have channels like METV. Trying to receive them OTA is not an easy feat for many. I see why Dish may not be able to carry a national feed as the contract with the local station, but carrying the local sub channels should not be that hard to do. I spoke with a couple engineers in Portland & Seattle and they said, there should not be an issue, but again it is up to Dish, Direct, cable to carry them. Our local cable system at least carries the sub channels that are carried OTA here from translators.
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
447 Posts
Give the speed with which video is moving to IP (HBO, CBS, Hulu, etc), OTA and cable/satelite may not be around in 10 years. Look at what happened to analog/digital photography. Kodak invented digital, and they were overwhelmed by the speed of the transition, and is now a shadow of its' former self.
 

·
Know Nothing
Joined
·
6,270 Posts
Just turn your TVs off folks.

End of your concerns about this kind of thing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,496 Posts
mwdxer said:
Since Dish does reuse the spectrum for local coverage, adding the sub channels should not be a big undertaking I would not think.
On OTA each station decides how much of their signal to use for each subchannel. If DISH and DirecTV passed through the OTA block bit by bit (they do not) then each station could be given a block of bits on satellite to use as they please. If a station used half of their OTA bits for a reduced quality HD feed and the rest for three SD subchannels that is what you would get via satellite.

Unfortunately neither DISH nor DirecTV have the bandwidth to pass through every bit received from the stations. At best, they allocate enough space per broadcast station for one HD feed. In some cases where two major networks are carried in HD by the same station they will allocate a second HD feed. Additional SD feeds take up space beyond the station's allocation.

Cable has it easy ... At worst they have to deal with a couple of dozen stations. DISH and DirecTV are dealing with thousands of stations. While frequency reuse helps, it is not a perfect solution. Spotbeam footprints overlap and there must be space between spotbeams on the same transponder to avoid interference. In general cable does not lose bandwidth on one city's system because another city several hours away.

The FCC's proposal to combine stations will help ... by removing many subchannels from the equation. If your local ABC and CBS licensees (as a random example) end up on the same transmitter then their subchannels will likely go away from OTA. If the subchannels remain on cable or satellite they would be carried (or not) like any other non-broadcast channel.

The FCC promised protection for combined stations ... so that (in my example) if your local ABC and CBS did combine transmitters each would be considered a separate station for Must Carry and Consent to Carry. Which is more important when two local non-network stations combine transmitters and both DISH and DirecTV look for a reason not to carry one of the channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the clarification. I think before sub channels, no one thought about the few low power channels Dish did not have, but now with the fantastic amount of sub channel fare and many old TV shows, people want those sub channels. Apparently FETV and COZI made a deal to offer the channel part time in a national feed. Too bad others cannot do the same thing. Maybe that will be an option? I would think the smaller networks now only on sub channels would want greater coverage. I think there will be plenty of sub channels out there, but the less popular ones running low rated programming with go away. Ones like METV, Antenna TV, etc will stay. Right now there are dozens of them running nothing but off the wall religious and shopping, etc. If some station wanted to really do well, they could run SD and stack a bunch of the classic TV and movie channels all in one place for the viewer. If streaming becomes more allowable, then the public will receive these programs. I am sure both Dish & Dirct get many calls asking for channels like METV or Get TV. I wish we still had Charlie Chat, as that could be discussed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,658 Posts
In this shared scenario... if you end up with two major networks shared, there goes your HD OTA feeds... and by association, your Dish and DirecTV feeds as well.

In my DMA, at least some of the local stations deliver HD feeds over fiber to Time Warner... but Dish and DirecTV pick them up OTA for uplink... so this scenario would kill HD LiLs in a lot of cases I would think. Consumers and networks wouldn't like that, I wouldn't think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have been reading more about the proposed ATSC 3.0. If this takes effect, then the available space will increase. This may be the answer. However, ATSC 3.0 will not work with the current ATSC 1.0, so everyone who watches OTA would have to either buy a converter box or a new TV. If this is adopted, the new TVs will probably have two tuners, one for the current ATSC 1.0 and the new ATSC 3.0, like they do with digital and analog. Of course this will cost the TV stations a lot of money which I am sure they will not be happy with. I am hoping most content with be streamed, so OTA TV will not be as important.
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
424 Posts
Stewart Vernon said:
In this shared scenario... if you end up with two major networks shared, there goes your HD OTA feeds... and by association, your Dish and DirecTV feeds as well.

In my DMA, at least some of the local stations deliver HD feeds over fiber to Time Warner... but Dish and DirecTV pick them up OTA for uplink... so this scenario would kill HD LiLs in a lot of cases I would think. Consumers and networks wouldn't like that, I wouldn't think.
Why since the beginning has Directv and Dish not been receiving local channels via fiber to uplink instead using ota? Is it too expensive? Directv and Dish may have no choice in the future to use fiber if they want to provide hd locals to most of the dma's if all this happens.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,276 Posts
mkdtv21 said:
Why since the beginning has Directv and Dish not been receiving local channels via fiber to uplink instead using ota? Is it too expensive? Directv and Dish may have no choice in the future to use fiber if they want to provide hd locals to most of the dma's if all this happens.
I think that truly depends on the specific market and the reasons vary. Some are fiber some can't be for any number of reasons and I'm sure some aren't because of costs.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,496 Posts
DISH already has a nationwide fiber network in place serving all of their "points of presence" (OTA receive locations) and uplink centers. They offer excess capacity on the network to stations and others who have a need.

The "last mile" fiber from DISH's POP to the station would be the missing link(s) at this point. And they could be done market by market as stations combine. The FCC has not yet dealt with that issue (at least as far as I have seen). DISH retransmits what they receive OTA. If a station is not broadcasting HD OTA then DISH transmits what the station sends (SD). There may be some exceptions (I have not audited their local station list) but if the HD content is not OTA then don't expect it to be on DISH. (Markets where no station is carried in HD can be all SD.)

Future "consent to carry" negotiations may come down to stations refusing to allow carriers to deliver their OTA SD feeds and selling their special fiber only HD feeds to cable and satellite. It will be interesting to see how the FCC will handle that.

In early discussions about combining stations on the same transmitter the FCC said that they would protect the stations as individuals ... if two or more separately licensed stations were combined on the same transmitter then each licensee would maintain the same "must carry" or "consent to carry" protections they have today. The FCC also noted the concept of separate delivery of feeds to cable and satellite ... but no rule was written and no decision was made.

At this point only the main feed from a licensee is protected. Two stations cramming two HD feeds on one transmitter and having no room for sub-channels is what I expect to see OTA. Fiber feeds are not impossible, but if the station does not transmit HD are they really a HD station? That issue has not been resolved.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top