[aa9vi]

Basically he was promised the H20 from D* and the installer didn't have it so he called D* and asked for 1 of 3 options... I thought this was reasonable.
a) an H20
b) an H21 + AM21
c) credit of $100 to buy H20 receiver himself from solidsignal.com

below is the exchange he had with the CSR. I was pretty sure the AM21 is compatible with the H21. Am I wrong?

This was a very unprofessional exchange. At the very mininum I think he should have been told, "ante up $50 for the AM21." Maybe I'm reading into this, but this kind of confirms my suspicion of DirecTV's condescention and ignorance about some customers desires for OTA. How should my friend get one of the 3 options since he wants the OTA information in the guide and not have to press TV input select to go to the OTA stuff? He lives in SE PA where he can get PIT and Wheeling/Stubenville channels so he wants the OTA.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

"From: XXXXX <[email protected]>
Amazing. I spent an hour on the phone with directv.
I had to go through 5 different people. the last was a manager and told me that my facts about the h21 and the am21 were inaccurate. They asked for the model # of the TV that I had and after putting me on hold for roughly 10 minutes, the manager "Dave" came back on and told me that he spoke to philips and claims that I can use an HDMI cord to connect my receiver and connect a regular over the air antenna to the line-in port. Sure I can, but that is not the issue. I told him I wanted the H20. I shouldnt have to make a big production of going from one source to the other.
He told me that the new h23 is best and that most people use the HR21. The AM21 is supposedly only compatible with the hr21 and will not work with the h21. Am21 does not work with the h23, as you told me. Anyway, I asked them to credit my account then so that I could purchase an h20 myself. He put me on hold for another 5 minutes and then came back to tell me that according to their policy, they are providing me with a receiver and a new dish at no cost to upgrade. If I wanted to buy a different receiver than what they provide, that was on me, but they would be unable to credit my account. I mentioned that they had done this for a few of my friends (didnt mention any specific names tho) and he said our policy has changed. I asked to speak to yet another person higher up than him, and he told me I would have to contact the corporate offices, which I intend to do this afternoon. Every one of the people I talked to expressed absolute shock that I would not want the highest end h23. Why on earth would I want an h20? They stopped short of calling me lazy, but that seemed to be the implication when I told them I did not want to have to physically change an input source to access my local channels if the direct tv went out.

What a cluster @#&%!"

 

[houskamp]

H21 doesn't work with am21...



yet...

 

[dorfd1]

H21 doesn't work with am21...

yet...

Yes it does because it works with the hr21.

 

[RobertE]

Yes it does because it works with the hr21.

Currently it DOES NOT work with the H series. It DOES work with the HR series.

 

[Sharkie_Fan]

Yes it does because it works with the hr21.

What does the HR21 have to do with the H21? They're different beasts, and as of this moment in time, as houskamp (and Robert) pointed out, the H21 and AM21 are not compatible.

 

[RobertE]

Basically he was promised the H20 from D* and the installer didn't have it so he called D* and asked for 1 of 3 options... I thought this was reasonable.
a) an H20
b) an H21 + AM21
c) credit of $100 to buy H20 receiver himself from solidsignal.com

below is the exchange he had with the CSR. I was pretty sure the AM21 is compatible with the H21. Am I wrong?

This was a very unprofessional exchange. At the very mininum I think he should have been told, "ante up $50 for the AM21." Maybe I'm reading into this, but this kind of confirms my suspicion of DirecTV's condescention and ignorance about some customers desires for OTA. How should my friend get one of the 3 options since he wants the OTA information in the guide and not have to press TV input select to go to the OTA stuff? He lives in SE PA where he can get PIT and Wheeling/Stubenville channels so he wants the OTA.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

"From: XXXXX <[email protected]>
Amazing. I spent an hour on the phone with directv.
I had to go through 5 different people. the last was a manager and told me that my facts about the h21 and the am21 were inaccurate. They asked for the model # of the TV that I had and after putting me on hold for roughly 10 minutes, the manager "Dave" came back on and told me that he spoke to philips and claims that I can use an HDMI cord to connect my receiver and connect a regular over the air antenna to the line-in port. Sure I can, but that is not the issue. I told him I wanted the H20. I shouldnt have to make a big production of going from one source to the other.
He told me that the new h23 is best and that most people use the HR21. The AM21 is supposedly only compatible with the hr21 and will not work with the h21. Am21 does not work with the h23, as you told me. Anyway, I asked them to credit my account then so that I could purchase an h20 myself. He put me on hold for another 5 minutes and then came back to tell me that according to their policy, they are providing me with a receiver and a new dish at no cost to upgrade. If I wanted to buy a different receiver than what they provide, that was on me, but they would be unable to credit my account. I mentioned that they had done this for a few of my friends (didnt mention any specific names tho) and he said our policy has changed. I asked to speak to yet another person higher up than him, and he told me I would have to contact the corporate offices, which I intend to do this afternoon. Every one of the people I talked to expressed absolute shock that I would not want the highest end h23. Why on earth would I want an h20? They stopped short of calling me lazy, but that seemed to be the implication when I told them I did not want to have to physically change an input source to access my local channels if the direct tv went out.

What a cluster @#&%!"

Everything in the email looks accurate to me. No CSR has the power to specify what model gets installed. They just can't. Finding a 20 series is becoming harder and harder. Finding a new one will next to impossible.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about just switching inputs on the TV.

 

[say-what]

Since the tv has an internal ATSC tuner and your friend doesn't want a dvr, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to use the TV's tuner for OTA - it's probably better than the H20's.

But, if I were your friend, I'd get an HR20 or HR21/AM21 to make full use of DirecTV's services.

As for the H20, I'm not even sure those are still in production - chances are he'd get a refurb and the H20's were the last HD receivers designed for NDS software. I had an H20, and while a serviceable receiver, I quickly exchanged it for a 2nd HR20.

 

[dave29]

if he wants a h20, he may as well pony up the 100 bucks and buy one from solidsignal or another online retailer

 

[Stuart Sweet]

say-what is right, I believe all production has switched to H21 and H23 receivers.

 

[JLucPicard]

I know I'm probably looked at as a fanboy anyway, but I would have to side with DirecTV on this one. Maybe not in the manner in which they handled it (but all we have to go by is your friend's version), but I think their arguments are not at all out of line.

First problem would have been someone at DirecTV "promising" him an H20 (if, in fact, that was the case). Their ordering system just says "HD Receiver". It depends on what the installers have in stock as to what is actually delivered.

As has been stated, currently the AM21 will not work with the H21.

If he wants to obtain an H20 from somewhere else, that's a choice he can make, but DirecTV is under no obligation to give him credit for the cost.

I have a feeling that even if the AM21 DID work with the H21 or H23 that your friend would insist that he be given one for free and not think it right to pay the $50 going rate. Just something I picked up from the tone of his e-mail.

And from reading his account, I'm also missing what makes this a "very unprofessional exchange". It seems the DirecTV people explained to him what they were and were not able to do. And they even went to the extent of determining if his HDTV could accept an OTA input as an option for him to receive the OTA signal.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get into your friend's court on this one.

 

[Doug Brott]

say-what is right, I believe all production has switched to H21 and H23 receivers.

Actually, the H21 appears to be out of production as well, but the distribution channel probably still has some left.

 

[davros74]

I just went through something similar when I got my free HD receiver upgrade to replace my 5 year old Hughes MPEG-2 unit. The installer showed up with an H23. I want OTA w/ AM21. Now, I know this isn't likely to work now, but likely will in the future, however, the installer didn't know much and I was rather upset with his boss and DirecTVs response (even though I knew the answer ahead of time). I was hoping to get a free AM21 out of the deal since the older unit DID have an ATSC tuner, but considering they are only $50, I would be willing to pay for it if the receiver is free. However I couldn't even get that far....

The installer didn't know what I was talking about. He was nice, I won't fault him. He only had the H23 on hand, and no HR's in his truck. He had never heard of an AM21, which seems odd but entirely possible. He hadn't been doing installs that long. He was surprised I have a SWM8 setup and asked where I got it. He said he has only done 2 SWM installs.

So next he lets me talk to his boss. This jerk pretty much just laughed at me and said that he had "no clue" what I was talking about. When I explained it again, he seemed to get the idea of what OTA meant, but then went off about why I wanted OTA support anyway since it's going away in February, 2009 (idiot). I tried to ask a 3rd time, and he vehemently told me "their is no such thing". I informed him that I was surprised by his response because I have an HR21/AM21 upstairs and would gladly show his installer what a DirecTV AM21 looks like. (knew this was a dead end at this point)

Then we get to the DirecTV CSR to activate the H23. This guy was better - did try to look up the specs, but he kept insisting that the H23 could get locals already. He claimed it had an RF tuner built in. I think he was confused with the HD-sat locals and the "built-in B-band converters" which the H23 does have. He even mentioned it has a "USB port for future use".

No one could tell me if the AM21 would work with it. I pretty much already knew the H23 doesn't work with the AM21 now, however, NONE of them knew what an AM21 even was, or even what I was asking for (local OTA HD reception). They all acted like I was speaking Mandarin at them or something. ATSC didn't ring any bells with them.

I took the H23 anyway since my free upgrade could have been a refurb, and hope the AM21 will eventually work with the H21/H23. I could just go buy another set-top box for that TV (no built in tuner), but I don't want to have to use yet another AC plug and component input just for that.

I was disappointed that the installer and DirecTV doesn't seem to know what ATSC/OTA means anymore. Or at least the CSRs don't. I personally like the AM21 solution - receivers are cheaper, and those of us that want it can get it, but that doesn't mean anyone on the phone has a clue. All I ask for now is PLEASE D*, release a firmware update for H21/H23 that works with AM21! How hard can it be since the HR20/HR21 already support it?

 

[say-what]

I wouldn't expect an installer to know what an AM21 is, since the only way to get one is to order from DirecTV or a 3rd party like SolidSignal and have them ship one - the installers never see or touch them.

 

[Kansas Zephyr]

I wouldn't expect an installer to know what an AM21 is, since the only way to get one is to order from DirecTV or a 3rd party like SolidSignal and have them ship one - the installers never see or touch them.

True dat.

But, it seems to be in D*'s best interest for its HSPs to be aware of them, how they work, and how to get them. So, they can inform those interested, providing better, more knowledgeable, customer service.

 

[houskamp]

personaly I'd skip the H and get the HR.. you can get the am21 for OTA and you'll be much happier :grin:

 

[CoramDeo]

The H20-600 has the 5th generation ATSC chip that can pull in stations where others can't. And that includes the tuner built into my Sony. OTA performance is far more important to me than DVR, especially since I live in DMA #179 and probably won't get locals through D* for a very long time, if ever. I suspect that's the case with others like me who live where there is no cable or FIOS option and who were the first with TVRO systems; yes, I still have my 12-ft Paraclipse. All said, if D* isn't going to offer locals to those of us in the "boonies" anytime in the next decade, perhaps they could have LG crank out a few more of those 5th generation chips... I might even be open to a DVR

 

[Johnnie5000]

I wouldn't expect an installer to know what an AM21 is, since the only way to get one is to order from DirecTV or a 3rd party like SolidSignal and have them ship one - the installers never see or touch them.

Exactly. The only installers that know that those exist are the installers on this forum.

Besides the obvious DirecTV Techs specialize in satellites, not off-air antenna. It should be pretty obivious DTV wants little or nothing to do with OTA channels, but they're playing nice by even making the AM-21. Not knocking OTA channels, they rock. But they are strictly a DIY deal.

 

[dettxw]

So this H20-600 that is just sitting here doing nothing on top of my paper shredder, is it worth something to somebody?

 

[davros74]

Besides the obvious DirecTV Techs specialize in satellites, not off-air antenna. It should be pretty obivious DTV wants little or nothing to do with OTA channels, but they're playing nice by even making the AM-21. Not knocking OTA channels, they rock. But they are strictly a DIY deal.

See, that seems odd to me, since DirecTV is interested in getting HD locals on their satellites, so why are they so anti-ATSC? The H20/HR20 receivers had ATSC tuners. Now the new ones do not, but when you ask DirecTV about it it's like their receivers have never had that capability. ATSC? OTA? Huh? They (CSRs and installers) should at least know that you can get HD locals by two means - sat or OTA. If they can't offer an OTA solution to a customer with DirecTV equipment, they should be able to inform the customer how to get a settop box to pull in the stations. The big switchover is coming soon and it seems DirecTV just wants to turn a blind eye and hope no one wants more than 4 HD local channels after the switch.

In my area, DirecTV is missing ABC HD local due to a contract dispute with the local ABC affiliate. So that means I get 3 HD locals from DirecTV, but 28 (inculding sub-channels) from OTA. Not having ABC HD they are missing out on a lot of football programs in HD this fall in my area, and that's big to some people.

I hear comments from people who poo-poo Sat TV because you lose weather information during severe storms. This doesn't happen with OTA but DirecTV doesn't even seem to support their own OTA solution (AM21). This could sway some people to stick with cable (it is yet to be seen how many of the sub channels cable companies will carry after the Feb switchover. DirecTV would have a hard time picking up ALL local ATSC stations and channels - an OTA approach is the most flexible. I don't know why they don't add the channel scan option back. Then they don't even have to support APG data. I don't care about that - I just want to tune the channel to 9-1 like I could on my 5 year old Hughes HTL-HD. Seems strange that in 5 years DirecTV has taken a step backwards in HD OTA (here at least).

I'm not saying the techs need to know how to put up an antenna, or know what kind of antenna is right for a particular install, but they should at least know what an ATSC tuner is, since some of DirecTVs own equipment has them in 'em.

I think DirecTV would have been brilliant if they had made the AM21 have video/audio out jacks and be compatible with the FCC rebate program. Market it for the 2009 changeover, and add - hey, this tuner will work with a DirecTV receiver if you choose to switch to satellite from ant/cable!

 

[Johnnie5000]

I'm not saying the techs need to know how to put up an antenna, or know what kind of antenna is right for a particular install, but they should at least know what an ATSC tuner is, since some of DirecTVs own equipment has them in 'em.

I think DirecTV would have been brilliant if they had made the AM21 have video/audio out jacks and be compatible with the FCC rebate program. Market it for the 2009 changeover, and add - hey, this tuner will work with a DirecTV receiver if you choose to switch to satellite from ant/cable!

This is true. But in todays times, if a set of radio-shack rabbit-ears are hooked up to an HD-DVR and some guy doen't get his channel off of it he's going to call DTV and have a service call built and a tech will roll out and say "can't help you, sorry". And they can't, antennas have always had a DIY policy attatched to them.

But a lot of customers have the undying belief that it is the techs responsibility to make their antenna work. Regardless of how far away they are from the station, how cheap their antenna is, or the fact that DTV will NEVER train their techs on OTA channels.

Personally, as a tech, I think that dropping off-air antenna installs from HD packages, and the AM21 system is great. Really saves a lot of frustration on the installer end of the deal.
But marketing the AM21 as a converter box, that is a damn good idea. AM22 maybe?