DBSTalk Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Legend
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I got my replacement R15 yesterday for the one that died on me the other night. What I got was an R15-500 (I had the 300) and it is clearly a refurb.

Should I be satisfied with a refurb?

So anyway I instantly noticed that the IR pickup was much quicker than on my other unit. While I was on line with tech support (had a setup issue) I asked about it and the girl's answer was both interesting and a bit of a bad omen IMO. She said that as you put more and more onto the R15 (be it shows to record or recorded shows or custom lists) the unit slows down. "it is basically like your home PC." As soon as she said that it hit me. We have all of these power users on here and we are all packing this box full of stuff. The box then runs like crap and locks up...just like your home computer IF (note the big if) your home computer is old or vastly under speced. So the R15 is a PC that essentially has little to no RAM....they under speced the thing and NO MATTER how many software upgrades you put on this thing in time it is going to get sluggish and lock up. That ticks me off a good bit because that basically tells me that in reality there is no hope for this thing.

I also asked about the major patch that has been rumored here to be coming soon. She says it is scheduled to be rolled out late in 2006 (after Christmas) or in early 2007.

So is there any way to help help this box? I know you could mod a tivo and add HDs for more record space...but if the R15 uses the HD for virtual memory (which from the sounds of it it does) I adding HD space should also prevent the unit from having so many lock ups.

Thoughts?
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Close, but not quite.

The R15 is more powerful, hardware-wise, than a Series2 DirecTV TiVo, which, in turn, was quite a bit more powerful than the original DirecTV TiVo. However, my DSR6000 (circa 2000) blows my R15 away, from a "power user" point of view. You can't ignore the contribution of good software design in the equation.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,863 Posts
The operations that seem to have the greatest negative impact on the R15 are autorecords and searches. Some have also found that extensive use of the active and/or mix channels may cause problems. Having a lot of series links (pushing the limit of 50) and doing a lot of shuffling in the prioritizer also seem to cause problems.

It isn't how much you record, it is how you go about doing it. In other words, you can have a hard drive that is 80% full and have no problems, or a hard drive that is 25% full and have lots of problems.

It is true though, once an R15 starts having problems, for whatever reason, it seems to progressively get worse until a reformat is the only thing that fixes it.

Carl
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
Don't take the CSR's word as the official word of D*. I suspect that the vast majority of them believe they are giving you correct info. But it's a rumor mill, as we've seen posted here over and over again. I'm sure it's like that childrens game (telegraph?) where one kid whispers something in the next kids ear and so forth...
 

·
Godfather
Joined
·
298 Posts
my samsung DTIVO blows my R15 away with reliability, but the guide and menus are faster on my R15.

I'll take reliability over speed any day.:)
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,777 Posts
I've posted this elsewhere, and this is all based on my perception of the R15 (based on 16+ years of s/w development experience) - I have no actual knowledge of this... but it seems to fit, based on experience. I think the main issue with the R15 isn't the hardware. I don't believe it's under-speced. I think it's main problem is that it's memory management sucks. I think this is the root to many of the problems we've seen. For example, the fact that the information provided on many shows is lacking compared to the standard DTV receivers, or even compared to the TiVo. I think that even the first run/repeat issue is due to not enough data coming into the unit.

That also speaks to the limits that the unit has. My guess is that the limits are intentional, designed to prevent the system from freezing up regularly. I also think that the reason the guide data being sent to the unit is truncated is because of those management issues - take a system that doesn't have good memory management, and throw alot of data at it, and it will freeze up on you. That being said, to fix things like the first run/repeat issue, and the lack of guide data, requires increasing the data stream going to the unit. But because that could cause the system problems (e.g. I believe that searches sometimes freeze is for that very reason - too much data compared to what the memory management can handle), there are really two solutions:

1) Redesign the memory management.
2) Find the right "balance"

Regarding number 2, what I mean is that they would figure out just how far they can go with the additional data before things start to freeze up, which is what I think they've been doing til now. To aid in this, they would free up memory where they could (which is why the channel icons went from looking good to looking like crap).

If I had to guess, I would say that the big s/w release that's coming will be of the redesign the memory management variety. If that's true, then I am really looking forward to that s/w release, because that would enable them to increase the guide data, and therefore I think many of the issues that people see would go away.

Again, this is all an educated guess on my part, but it feels right to me.
 

·
Legend
Joined
·
136 Posts
I've been a s/w developer for 12+ years now.
And I have to say I completely agree.
I have two R15 units one I have to the limit of the to DO list and
the other one I usually only have 10 or 15 programs programed to record.

I think we all know which unit usually freezes or locks up.
Since 10E8 I must say I haven't had a lock up or freeze on either unit.

Software development always falls behind the hardware development.
Hopefully you are right and DTV does deploy a more sophisticated memory management in the next software release.

Keith
jpl said:
I've posted this elsewhere, and this is all based on my perception of the R15 (based on 16+ years of s/w development experience) - I have no actual knowledge of this... but it seems to fit, based on experience. I think the main issue with the R15 isn't the hardware. I don't believe it's under-speced. I think it's main problem is that it's memory management sucks. I think this is the root to many of the problems we've seen. For example, the fact that the information provided on many shows is lacking compared to the standard DTV receivers, or even compared to the TiVo. I think that even the first run/repeat issue is due to not enough data coming into the unit.

That also speaks to the limits that the unit has. My guess is that the limits are intentional, designed to prevent the system from freezing up regularly. I also think that the reason the guide data being sent to the unit is truncated is because of those management issues - take a system that doesn't have good memory management, and throw alot of data at it, and it will freeze up on you. That being said, to fix things like the first run/repeat issue, and the lack of guide data, requires increasing the data stream going to the unit. But because that could cause the system problems (e.g. I believe that searches sometimes freeze is for that very reason - too much data compared to what the memory management can handle), there are really two solutions:

1) Redesign the memory management.
2) Find the right "balance"

Regarding number 2, what I mean is that they would figure out just how far they can go with the additional data before things start to freeze up, which is what I think they've been doing til now. To aid in this, they would free up memory where they could (which is why the channel icons went from looking good to looking like crap).

If I had to guess, I would say that the big s/w release that's coming will be of the redesign the memory management variety. If that's true, then I am really looking forward to that s/w release, because that would enable them to increase the guide data, and therefore I think many of the issues that people see would go away.

Again, this is all an educated guess on my part, but it feels right to me.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
4,873 Posts
"Should I be satisfied with a refurb?"

I don't think anyone commented on this. Yes, the D* regulations say that you could get a refurb to replace defective equipment. They don't even guarantee that you will receive the same model.

Not to say you couldn't complain to Retention and get a new one--you might, who knows--but they are under no obligation to replace it with a new one.

If it looks and works as it should, be happy.
 

·
Godfather
Joined
·
439 Posts
whether you get a refurb or a brand new unit, any you would get has 3 things you can't change:

1) Refurbs and new units both have a 90 day warranty.
2) There is no other version of the R15 (unlike tivos could be samsung, hughes, r10's, ect)
3) No matter what, when you get a replacement from Directv, it's a lease.

Oh, and as bobnielsen said: "A refurb might have received more TLC than one fresh off the factory floor."
 

·
Godfather
Joined
·
298 Posts
paulman182 said:
"Should I be satisfied with a refurb?"

I don't think anyone commented on this. Yes, the D* regulations say that you could get a refurb to replace defective equipment. They don't even guarantee that you will receive the same model.

Not to say you couldn't complain to Retention and get a new one--you might, who knows--but they are under no obligation to replace it with a new one.

If it looks and works as it should, be happy.
nothing is wrong with a refurb if it works, It's not yours anyway it belongs to D*.
 

·
Cool Member
Joined
·
22 Posts
AnonomissX said:
whether you get a refurb or a brand new unit, any you would get has 3 things you can't change:

1) Refurbs and new units both have a 90 day warranty.
2) There is no other version of the R15 (unlike tivos could be samsung, hughes, r10's, ect)
3) No matter what, when you get a replacement from Directv, it's a lease.

Oh, and as bobnielsen said: "A refurb might have received more TLC than one fresh off the factory floor."
4) You get the same championship quality software
 

·
Godfather
Joined
·
417 Posts
In my case, #3 is not correct. My trusty DSR6000 finally bit the bucket and it was replaced with a (YUCH) R15. My first non-Tivo. The R15 was brand new factory sealed..... no doubt about it and it is not leased according to my account page. Fortiunately this is basically a "spare" unit I keep in my office. I just DREAD when my HR10-250 eventually dies. I really dislike the interfase on this unit. :(
AnonomissX said:
whether you get a refurb or a brand new unit, any you would get has 3 things you can't change:

1) Refurbs and new units both have a 90 day warranty.
2) There is no other version of the R15 (unlike tivos could be samsung, hughes, r10's, ect)
3) No matter what, when you get a replacement from Directv, it's a lease.

Oh, and as bobnielsen said: "A refurb might have received more TLC than one fresh off the factory floor."
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
AnonomissX said:
2) There is no other version of the R15 (unlike tivos could be samsung, hughes, r10's, ect)
3) No matter what, when you get a replacement from Directv, it's a lease.
There are 3 different manufactures for the R15 and they all use different hardware.

I thought if you had the protection coverage and got an owned unit replaced you owned the replacement also?
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,473 Posts
AnonomissX said:
whether you get a refurb or a brand new unit, any you would get has 3 things you can't change:

1) Refurbs and new units both have a 90 day warranty.
2) There is no other version of the R15 (unlike tivos could be samsung, hughes, r10's, ect)
3) No matter what, when you get a replacement from Directv, it's a lease.

Oh, and as bobnielsen said: "A refurb might have received more TLC than one fresh off the factory floor."
2) There are 3 different R15's 100, 300, and 500? How is that different from the other Tivo's or UTV's (the only difference I know is that they looked different but don't they all function the same? Heck the 300 looks differant then the 100 and the 500).

3) If I own the Unit how is it that the new one is a lease?
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,473 Posts
As far as the limits, I think the limits are there to preven the unit from "blowing up" but I still think the 100 todo list limit is causing the R15 to "blow up". With the R15 having to think all the time about the todo list I think alot of the processing power is wasted by having to look at the todo list all the time and run it's weird process of trying to figure out what random show it will add to the list. If the limit was gone it would only have to try and figure changes less often.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top