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kay said:
Yeah it's cool i'm going to ground it right to the fauce pipe which is within just an inch or so of the entrance to the house.
Let Mike quote the code to ya.
BUT.. just so you understand/know
...that 5 ft applies to the SERVICE ENTRANCE of the Wtr line into the structure AND the water line has to have direct contact with the earth for 10 ft prior to its entrance according to the code.(which im sure it(10 ft of earth contact) does and that 10 ft of gr contact really is not an issue in most circumstances on a res install)
(So that means within 5 ft of where the wtr main enters your home, (which refers to where the wtr main Actually leaves the earth if your pipe comes from the ground) and doesnt ness. mean the wall of your home.

=wtr main (from meter) entrance point & not to excede 5 ft in distance within the structure before its grounded.
 

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You must verify that the copper piping is a complete conductor path and grounded to the main electrical panel. Water heaters, appliances such as filters and water softeners or any sections of plastic pipe must have #6 or better jumpers to complete continuity. The panel, itself, must be grounded to an 8 foot buried grounding rod. Since NEC 1996, just grounding to a water pipe is not sufficient.

Additionally, you'd be surprised on how many plumbing systems do not have the required 20 feet of buried pipe for a decent ground. Most outside water lines are plastic; pvc or polyethylene.

A lot of PEX. CPVC, or older polybutylene plumbing systems are installed in walls, in attics or under floors, with only the visible stubs and other sections being copper. This is happening more than ever, since copper has tripled or more in cost over the past three years.

Homeowners are led to believe that they have copper plumbing systems, when, in fact, they don't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
D-Bamatech said:
Let Mike quote the code to ya.
BUT.. just so you understand/know
...that 5 ft applies to the SERVICE ENTRANCE of the Wtr line into the structure AND the water line has to have direct contact with the earth for 10 ft prior to its entrance according to the code.(which im sure it(10 ft of earth contact) does and that 10 ft of gr contact really is not an issue in most circumstances on a res install)
(So that means within 5 ft of where the wtr main enters your home, (which refers to where the wtr main Actually leaves the earth if your pipe comes from the ground) and doesnt ness. mean the wall of your home.

=wtr main (from meter) entrance point & not to excede 5 ft in distance within the structure before its grounded.
The entrance point of the water main is underground and as far as I can tell from the info i've got it actually enters just near there. There is no way short of tearing the foundation apart to tell.

Mike500 said:
You must verify that the copper piping is a complete conductor path and grounded to the main electrical panel. Water heaters, appliances such as filters and water softeners or any sections of plastic pipe must have #6 or better jumpers to complete continuity. The panel, itself, must be grounded to an 8 foot buried grounding rod. Since NEC 1996, just grounding to a water pipe is not sufficient.

Additionally, you'd be surprised on how many plumbing systems do not have the required 20 feet of buried pipe for a decent ground. Most outside water lines are plastic; pvc or polyethylene.

A lot of PEX. CPVC, or older polybutylene plumbing systems are installed in walls, in attics or under floors, with only the visible stubs and other sections being copper. This is happening more than ever, since copper has tripled or more in cost over the past three years.

Homeowners are led to believe that they have copper plumbing systems, when, in fact, they don't.
The entire system inside my house (minus the lead at the water main) is fully copper. The whole pipes from the slab up in my bathrooms, kitchen, at the water heater, etc, are 100% copper pipe. The only pipe that is PVC is the one coming from the water main out by the road, which is the norm around here. Generally they are PVC for at least a good section leading up to the slab. I know this simply because I had to install a pressure reducer right near the water main because the house had really high water pressure (118 psi!) and I dug a good section of it up. The house is actually nearly 20 years old (copper was cheap, ah the days!) and copper is the norm throughout, although I understand why they are going very cheap on copper these days, and honestly it's a shame that is has to be that way. As a poor (but worthwhile) test I hooked up my extrordinarily cheap multimeter between the ground pin on an electrical outlet and the water faucet, and the resistance is really low - does show a positive ground, although like you said I can't get a real reading of true ground without some expensive equipment.

This may not meed code 100% (also because i'm a couple feet past the required "20 feet ground wire maximum", but it's a lot better than grounding to nothing or running under the driveway (which by the way I looked up the code on, and it's a lot worse than just running a cable under - it must be a minimum of 2 feet down covered in PVC, and there are other stipulations in the local code as well). On top of that, no inspector is going to dig up my front yard to measure the length of the copper pipe for a satellite ground. I'll take this over the huge mess anyway, and this is the original ground point that the first installer used (and the same distance from the dish to the ground point) so i'm going to get it marked as "professionally installed", and i've got them coming out Tuesday to approve the install (I want a professional sign-off from a licensed installer to cover me incase a freak electrial issue or something should occur)

So i'm satisfied with this method. It may not be the best, but it works :) If it becomes a code issue for any reason when it comes time to sell the house ill just unhook the dish. (Which i'll do anyway, let the new people buy multiswitches and coax :p) - I also may relocate it to the north side of the house later when I fence in that side of the house, at which point I can simply bury a direct wire to the main electrical ground.
 

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Mike500 said:
You must verify that the copper piping is a complete conductor path and grounded to the main electrical panel. Water heaters, appliances such as filters and water softeners or any sections of plastic pipe must have #6 or better jumpers to complete continuity. The panel, itself, must be grounded to an 8 foot buried grounding rod. Since NEC 1996, just grounding to a water pipe is not sufficient.

Additionally, you'd be surprised on how many plumbing systems do not have the required 20 feet of buried pipe for a decent ground. Most outside water lines are plastic; pvc or polyethylene.

A lot of PEX. CPVC, or older polybutylene plumbing systems are installed in walls, in attics or under floors, with only the visible stubs and other sections being copper. This is happening more than ever, since copper has tripled or more in cost over the past three years.

Homeowners are led to believe that they have copper plumbing systems, when, in fact, they don't.
.. Mike500 ?... are you Holt? > that above sounds EXACTLY like a quote or paste from Mike Holt or either Todd of Dbs install... hmmm
 

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D-Bamatech said:
.. Mike500 ?... are you Holt? > that above sounds EXACTLY like a quote or paste from Mike Holt or either Todd of Dbs install... hmmm
Nope............It's just the technical language that is similar. I'm a Master Electrician and have written and interpreted a lot of codes for government regulatory agencies.

I am retired and was once a senior legal analyst and technical writer for a Federal regulatory agency involved in code enforcement.
 

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Mike500 said:
Nope............It's just the technical language that is similar. I'm a Master Electrician and have written and interpreted a lot of codes for government regulatory agencies.

I am retired and was once a senior legal analyst and technical writer for a Federal regulatory agency involved in code enforcement.
He he... But you know of Holt huh?... I knew there was a "tight tie" to the code application some how (sounded to much like Holt > Wink) not to have "walked it" AND applied it, not only with hands BUT also paper. = Too obvious to hide.

I bet you'd love to come w/ me one week and LOOK @ this mess the APPROVED D* home service providers pull out here as far as grounding.
I see dishes grounded to the GAS lines even AND the all too common gr to a brass wtr faucet w/ a pvc input pipe. Then i see where pressure reducing valves and stations ect where the pipe unions have rubber washers in between the "faces" of the union (= there went that ground!) w/ no "jumper" (#6) to continue "the path". Hey but what do you expect when QUANITY is Foremost & QUALITY Has Never been uttered and the lack of proper training is dictated with a overwelming display of THE PAY.

= "You get what you Pay for" and who is the underlying "suffer-er"... hmmmm that would be the patron and actual "payee".. now wouldnt it? IE > "the customer".

Sad huh?
 

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Yeah,

I did a lot of incident investigations involving failure of engineered components. Incredibly, a lot of these designs and executions do not directly result in catastrophic failure. It is usualy at least two or more contributory events occuring in a particular sequence or over a period of time.

You wouldn't believe how much substandard noncomplying engineering or execution there is out there. It's amazing how few of them really result in disaster.

Too many people cut corners with safety. They don't care how safe it is or how durable it it. All they care is that it works. Warranties DO NOT protect the consumer. They are a statement LIMITING the LIABILITY of the manufacturer and the merchant or the contractor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Mike500 said:
Too many people cut corners with safety. They don't care how safe it is or how durable it it. All they care is that it works. Warranties DO NOT protect the consumer. They are a statement LIMITING the LIABILITY of the manufacturer and the merchant or the contractor.
Amen to that!
 
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