have had hr20 for 2 days now. already I want to return it ;(

Bryan,

You're seeing known problems with that unit. Needless to say, it does have it's share of problems. Since the activation of this unit committs you to DirecTV for 2 years I would call them immediately and cancel and tell them you will return the unit.

You should probably also read through some of the problems on the HR20 forum at http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112.

You may also be interested in a poll and the comments posted on that poll at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=75177.

The problems you mention are ones many see but others don't. Seems obviously from your post you didn't expect you were entering into a beta test program of this unit as some state "everyone" is aware the HR20 is in beta.

You've had it for 2 days. Call DirecTV tell them to take it back and tell them to cancel your two year commitment otherwise you'll contact your BBB and your State's Attorney General's office for false advertising. Don't be afraid to ask to speak with supervisors and don't be suprised to be hung up on or disconnected in your quest to return your unit. Seems that SOP for DirecTV these days.

Please post back here with your progress as I'm sue there are others that would like to take the same approach.

thanks for the comments, WP.

I had read somewhere that you can cancel if you do it in the first few days. I wonder if there is truth to that or not. usually there is -some- evaluation period on things like this, no?

also, I didn't sign anything that stated I was in a 2yr contract. I was aware that I'd be comitting to 2 yrs but the paper that the installer brought out was a simple work order for an install and said nothing about 2 yrs anywhere on it.

I wonder if a verbal, over the phone, is binding? legally?

in fact, twice I've tried to get them to put in writing (even in just an email) what they were offering me as a pkg ($2 off this, $10 off that, free the other thing for 6 months, etc). I never got THAT whole thing in writing either, so how do I know what I'm actually signing up for? seems that they'd have this down better than this (?)

I'm so on the fence about this. for 3 or so years I've been more or less happy with directv. granted it was with a tivo unit and also I was using an old glass crt tv that did 480i natively (heh). life was 'good' back then. the 'trouble' didn't start until I got an lcd tv, saw how BAD sd tv is and then decided to try directv-hd to see if that's the right way to go. it did seem to be, even in spite of all the bad press about the hr20.

one thing that was an all out mistruth - I asked if the sd channels would look better if I 'upgraded' and the csr said they definitely would. and in her experience, they got better. I only half expected this but I was hoping that sd would at least equal if not better the older dish and receiver. guess what - sd is now WORSE for some reason.

my config is a 5lnb dish on my balcony going to the hr20-700. from there I'm using an included hdmi cable to my sceptre 32" lcd tv (from costco, only a month old).

with the hdmi connection, I did eliminate all analog transport issues (ghosting, bleeding of signals in s-video, etc). but now the video can appear to have a VERY blocky effect. an mpeg artifacting effect. almost like displaying a color gradient on an 8bit (pseudocolor) display (that's 256colors, not 8bit/channel!). its a very annoying effect, trying to make use of limited bitstream bandwidth or color allocation.

regardless of what is causing it, the end effect is that sd content now looks WORSE on my digital tv with the new setup than it did with the digital tv and an s-video connection to my old setup (tivo).

what have I gained? not much. very little HD content and some of it is fake (the tv says its 720p but it looks aweful and they're not kidding anyone by encoding a poor signal in HD encoding). I also 'gained' an unreliable disk based recorder. and I have to wait and hope and pray that these new channels in mp4 will make all this suffering worth it. but who knows WHEN this will happen. until then, I pay for what I have - which isn't a whole lot, to be serious.

I'm usually pretty good at adapting to new tech toys and such. I write embedded software (have done so on many previous jobs) and so I know how the software SHOULD work and what kind of reliability I should get from it. again, tivo set the bar very high and was extremely reliable for the 3+ yrs I've had it.

I have no doubts that this new dvr will work out the bugs. or die trying but is it FAIR to ask us to suffer thru it and also be locked into 2 yrs of possibly this??

I'm worried about this. I want to make this work but I don't have a good feeling about this. I do NOT want to 'have to live with this' and rationalize and make up excuse after excuse for a product's poor performance. (I shoot photos semi-professionally and one camera I use a lot is the panasonic. it takes a LOT of abuse from its user base about noise levels and its users constantly have to make excuses for the poor sensor designs. this reminds me quite a lot of that experience - if you buy into the hr20 dvr - you'll either be cursing it or just making excuses for its bad behavior.

again, I don't know what to do next about this. I guess I'll call retention tomorrow (monday) and see what they say...

linuxworks said:

... what should I do? /bryan

Click to expand...

I see you got the standard moaners advice to bail. :nono2:

I had my HR20 for two days, had many problems, called to get a replacement; with that in the works, after a reformat, called back to say the HR20 was working fine and have had only minor problems in the past two months.

There are problems, but the HR20 has been a really good plus for my HD experience (I'm a new HDTV owner also -- one day between receiving the TV and receiving the HR20). I basically watch/record HD about 90% of the time.

I wouldn't jump immediately, tho Wolfpack said do it now while you can. If you were to have major problems, call and get them documented, you can always call BBB or your state Attorney General and get satisfaction if done within your warrenty period. If you're willing to review the forums, accept some problems (and even some lost shows) and wait for the "good" software update, then I'd suggest you got to standby ("off" on the remote), unplug for at least 30 seconds and try again. If that doesn't help, do the reformat (on the front panel, press Record and Down) and if that doesn't do it, do a Menu - Help & Settings - Setup - Reset - Reset Everything to totally flush your machine and do a complete new install and setup. All this can be done over 3 -5 days and then you can decide if you want to pack it in.

Until you decide to stay or go, I would avoid doing a lot of personalization/customerization because reformats and Reset Everything will cause the loss of all you save including saved recordings. Also, I suggest you avoid adding Networking or even plugging in ethernet (or even adding OTA unless it's critical to you NOW) -- too many variables can make it difficult to determine if you have real problems with the core HR20 function.

If you use HDMI, be sure to run your complete setup (starting with Reset Everything) with the HDMI cable disconnected using Component for the setup. When the setup is complete, go to standby and plug in HDMI. I have both HDMI and Component working admirably, and this is what my original installer told me.

This is a great set of forums, but much of the info offered is provided without any individual configuration and setup identified, so it's really hard to pick and choose what might apply to you and what you should try. I wish you luck and welcome!

Wolffpack said:

I agree with bonscott87, give component a try versus HDMI. You may be surprised. Also using a calibration DVD to adjust the brightness and contract could also help. Seems factory settings for those typically don't cut the mustard for good PQ.

Click to expand...

thanks for the reply.

I have not done a -formal- calibration but I have calibrated it by eye. I am a semi-pro photographer and I actually do have a 'puck' for my photoshop screen calibrator (colorimeter) so I do know what you mean by calibrating. I spent quite some time doing whatever cal I could do, short of using an actual puck. I don't think this is my problem though as I'm not running with stock settings (defaults) on my tv.

the tv is not videophile quality but it seems good enough. 32" sceptre and the hdmi input DOES seem to work and work well. ok, not real well IF the sharpness is set too high. I am seeing some real pixel mapping bugs when I try to change the sharpness - I've never seen THAT happen before! I might shoot some photos of this to demonstrate what I'm saying. but if you look at the hdmi output you can see ALL the artifacts and blocking of the mpeg stream to the point where its so distracting you end up watching the mpeg 'effects' more than the content itself! its now the tv watching experience I was hoping for. its delivering FAR short of where it should be now, imho.

when I use svideo it does some natural smoothing (bluring) that actually seems to help smooth out the digital artifacts a bit. but of course at the loss of quality in color and sharpness. seems its a balancing act to get the right amount of sharpness and yet NOT create blocky artifacts or at least try not to highlight them so much.

I have not tried component yet and I'm not sure I want to. the dvr is in another room from the tv and I have a small hole poked thru the wall (heh) to run the hdmi cable thru or the s-video+spdif cables thru. if I have to run decent component cables plus audio that just won't fit thru the hole I have created minor issue but I'd rather run all digital than have to fall-back to an analog interconnect!

/bryan

richlife said:

I see you got the standard moaners advice to bail. :nono2:

Click to expand...

I'm TRYING to make this work. I am not happy about even CONSIDERING cable or dishtv. but I feel I was promised a set of goods that are not really being delivered.

I had my HR20 for two days, had many problems, called to get a replacement; with that in the works, after a reformat, called back to say the HR20 was working fine and have had only minor problems in the past two months.

Click to expand...

that's good to know. I just worry that if I accept this beta-test box that things may NOT improve later on and I will have lost any leverage I might have by doing an early 3day cancel. (btw, any truth to the rumor that you DO have 3 days to cancel with no 2yr penalty?)

There are problems, but the HR20 has been a really good plus for my HD experience (I'm a new HDTV owner also -- one day between receiving the TV and receiving the HR20). I basically watch/record HD about 90% of the time.

Click to expand...

I don't honestly see ENOUGH quality hd content to record yet!

I wouldn't jump immediately, tho Wolfpack said do it now while you can.

Click to expand...

I'm usually in favor of giving things a real chance but I also don't want to be locked in if I exceed my 3day trial..

If you were to have major problems, call and get them documented, you can always call BBB or your state Attorney General and get satisfaction if done within your warrenty period. If you're willing to review the forums, accept some problems (and even some lost shows) and wait for the "good" software update, then I'd suggest you got to standby ("off" on the remote), unplug for at least 30 seconds and try again. If that doesn't help, do the reformat (on the front panel, press Record and Down) and if that doesn't do it, do a Menu - Help & Settings - Setup - Reset - Reset Everything to totally flush your

Click to expand...

the unit is brand new! literally brand new - they ran out of hr20's and so the installer had to come out a 2nd time to actually bring the unit. the first install was JUST the 5lnb dish and wiring.

there just hasn't been enough 'gremlin time' to justify a reformat and reinstall.

machine and do a complete new install and setup. All this can be done over 3 -5 days and then you can decide if you want to pack it in.

Until you decide to stay or go, I would avoid doing a lot of personalization/customerization because reformats and Reset Everything will cause the loss of all you save including saved recordings.

Click to expand...

does not sound fun.. this loss of data and 'work' (my time) is one MAJOR reason that I can't wait to go to mythTV or similar where I have SOME control over what goes on under the skins. the whole idea of 'this file is yours to view IF we allow it' really unnerves me. the fact that files got deleted without user error on my part AND that they are not recoverable is unforgivable. just plain bad software engineering (I'm a embedded software/firmware person by trade, btw).

Also, I suggest you avoid adding Networking or even plugging in ethernet (or even adding OTA unless it's critical to you NOW) -- too many variables can make it difficult to determine if you have real problems with the core HR20 function.

Click to expand...

agreed - I won't even think about networking. in fact, I'm not sure what it buys me. I don't plan to do the viiv thing, ever.

/bryan

macEarl said:

Have you turned off, pulled power for 30 seconds, then bring it back up?

Click to expand...

I didn't try that yet. the only reset procedure I used was the menu-based one. that seemed like it should have fixed things. this wasn't a hardware lockup - and that's the only time (that I would agree with) that a HARD reboot would be needed.

but to clear up software 'weird states' a soft reset should be all that is needed.

and again, in 2 days?? should it be needed to 'clear out ram' in only 2 days time?

wow. I can't believe this is considered an acceptable solution. suppose if you used MS word (ok, not a good example) and suppose that every day you lost 1 key file. and that you had to reboot windows each day to unstick it (like win98 days). would THAT be acceptable given that the current state of the art is NOT that bad across other competing vendors?

I find this 'solution' unaccptable for a 2 day old brand new unit.

/bryan

update:

after about 2 hours on the phone with at least 5 diff people (call retentions, get first line, ask for retentions, talk for a bit with them, have them xfer me to tier1 tech support, then to tier2 then back to retentions , then they hung up on me ;(

I called back, repeated the whole thing again and this time they didn't hang up. we worked thru my options and I TRIED MY BEST to get an hr10 but just no go. none to be had. no one could (or would) find one for me.

so then I suggested we just back out the whole 'upgrade' and restore me back to what I had before (dual tuner direct-tivo hughes). yes, I lose HD ability via directv but at least I have my tivo back and I won't lose recordings like I have, so far, twice done on the hr20.

given a choice of 'suffering' with sd and having ALL my recordings work as designed - OR going hr20 with HD but having a very iffy experience with it all - I guess I chose to go back to higher reliability even at the expense of some of the new whizzbang features (HD included).

or I could find a used hr10 and go that route. expensive as it may be.

or I could get an h20 (tuner only) and roll my own recorder but then I lose HD recording and the scheduler, as well. not very good as a solution.

I -think- i was able to fully cancel out of my contract, though! I was inside the 3 days of my install - not sure if that mattered or not. I asked to stay with directv but just go back to regular SD pkg. the CSR guy said he could do that and would send me a return box for the recorder and I could keep the 5lnb dish and just use that as my SD dish (even though its bigtime overkill for SD use). at least, if I change my mind in 6mos and want to check back with how HD is doing on DTV, I'll have the dish already set..

one comment was somewhat funny though. when I spoke with tier2 tech support they told me that their recommended 'fix' was to reset or even reformat the player. I told them that this is like having a broken arm and having to cut the arm off to fix it (well, sort of). ie, its NOT any kind of solution that should be done more than 1 or 2 times AT YEAR. I can see this happening a few times A WEEK and so I balked and told her that I am not willing to keep resetting the box and hoping that this time it won't delete my shows. she acted like I was not 'cooperating' and that I was refusing to follow her troubleshooting 'tips'. I wonder if she wrote down that I was a troublemaker of some sorts for objecting to having to continually reset the box...

but she hung up on me and I ended up redialing and getting a more pleasant CSR guy this time


wow. what a trial by fire.

sheesh.

/bryan

also, some people may not know this (I learned this the hard way, also): if you disconnect your DTV service on the hr20, the hr20 will NOT let you watch what was previously recorded and already on the hard disk!

unbelievable!

stuff that was 'ok' to record yesterday is now 'copyright violation' (or something like that - I forget the exact error message when I tried to play back a saved show).

on 2 of my older tivo units (philips and hughes) I could ALWAYS watch my older saved shows. series1 would nag you but then let you watch saved shows. series2 directivo also let me watch shows even with no satellite wiring connected.

apparently even SD shows are not watchable if you are not 'current' in your billing.

yet one more reason to NOT choose the hr20. I've known about the 'all your bits are belong to us' [grin] but this really takes the cake! ;( ;(

I may just have to give up on HD until HD wants to play by fair rules. or at least more fair, more like what I'm used to in the bad old SD content world...

/bryan