[Lije Baley]

I've been away from TV for a month. Yesterday I discovered that D* has "copy protected" the Starz/Encore and HBO/Cinemax channels. I feed my HD-DVR signal by HDMI to my AVR and by S-video to my DVD recorder. Now, I'll need to disconnect the HDMI connection if I wish to record any of the "protected" programming. The work-around is fairly simple so I wonder why D* instituted the "protection" in the first place, especially with the DVD recorder only receiving a 480i signal.

 

[texasbrit]

It's the movie channels that are insisting on this, not DirecTV. If there is an HDMI connection, it has to be compliant with HDCP. If it is not, the receiver shuts off all the video (there's really only one output, just delivered over multiple ports).

 

[RunnerFL]

I wonder why D* instituted the "protection" in the first place,

Because the studios have mandated it.

Another workaround is to just turn on your tv.

 

[Lije Baley]

Because the studios have mandated it.

Another workaround is to just turn on your tv.

I found several threads in the General Directv discussion forum from mid-April when the change was implemented. I now understand the situation.

TV is an '09 Panasonic plasma, and is HDCP compliant. No problems receiving signal on it. However, on or off, TV does not affect blocked signal to DVD recorder.

 

[HoTat2]

I found several threads in the General Directv discussion forum from mid-April when the change was implemented. I now understand the situation.

TV is an '09 Panasonic plasma, and is HDCP compliant. No problems receiving signal on it. However, on or off, TV does not affect blocked signal to DVD recorder.

The problem is your AVR is not responding properly to the HDCP query from the DIRECTV receiver. Can you connect the D* receiver HDMI cable directly to a different one of the HDMI inputs the TV and then the SPDIF output of the D* receiver to the AVR?

 

[JohnDG]

The problem is your AVR is not responding properly to the HDCP query from the DIRECTV receiver. Can you connect the D* receiver HDMI cable directly to a different one of the HDMI inputs the TV and then the SPDIF output of the D* receiver to the AVR?

Anywhere to get a list of AVR's that are working correctly with the new rules to allow recording to an DVD recorder?

jdg

 

[Lije Baley]

The problem is your AVR is not responding properly to the HDCP query from the DIRECTV receiver. Can you connect the D* receiver HDMI cable directly to a different one of the HDMI inputs the TV and then the SPDIF output of the D* receiver to the AVR?

All the equipment is in a cabinet. It's easy enough to connect and disconnect the DVR's HDMI cable as needed if I wish to record a program to DVD. Rerouting a second HDMI cable to the TV and a separate audio cable to the AVR would be more trouble and require using multiple inputs on the TV, negating one of the benefits of the AVR.

The AVR may drop the DVR's handshake when I select the DVD recorder input. At that point, the TV is being fed the DVR's signal routed by S-video to the DVD recorder, then passed through the AVR (an '09 Denon model) and to the TV by HDMI.

 

[Bill Broderick]

Anywhere to get a list of AVR's that are working correctly with the new rules to allow recording to an DVD recorder?

jdg

I don't believe that the AVR is necessarily the problem. My DVD Recorder is in my guest bedroom, where there is no AVR, and I still have the issue. My DVR is connected to the TV via HDMI and to the DVD recorder via S-Video. The DVD recorder used to be connected to the TV via HDMI. With that setup, I can no longer record copy protected content to the DVD Recorder.

However, once I replaced the HDMI cable between the DVD Recorder and the TV, with a component cable, I regained the ability to copy to the DVD Recorder.

However, the one additional requirement is that the TV must be turned on, otherwise, I will get the black screen with the copy protection message.

I spent years explaining to family members that the TV doesn't need to be turned on in order to copy to a VCR. Now that everybody believes me, I have to convince them that the TV needs to be turned on in order to copy to the DVD Recorder.

 

[jes]

Fortunately this only affects movie channels for now, so I can still watch news and other "less sensory involved" shows w/o surround sound... My A/V pre-amp/proc. keeps the HDCP happy, but I have to select the D* DVR on the Main zone before it wakes up the other video outputs. Once it's awake, I can do what I want with Main, except turn it off and still watch SD or HD component D* in the other room. So much for energy conservation...

All the equipment is in a cabinet. It's easy enough to connect and disconnect the DVR's HDMI cable as needed if I wish to record a program to DVD. Rerouting a second HDMI cable to the TV and a separate audio cable to the AVR would be more trouble and require using multiple inputs on the TV, negating one of the benefits of the AVR.

The AVR may drop the DVR's handshake when I select the DVD recorder input. At that point, the TV is being fed the DVR's signal routed by S-video to the DVD recorder, then passed through the AVR (an '09 Denon model) and to the TV by HDMI.

I would strongly recommend against disconnecting/reconnecting HDMI cables on a regular basis. The jack and connector are very delicate. If you feel you really have no alternative, then use a port saver like this one from Monoprice. That way if you break something, it's not the jack on the back of the equipment. $2 for the port saver is way cheaper than replacing the HDMI jack on the equipment...

BTW, the HDCP warning message on S-Video is useless... with the exception of the SD preview channel, 200, which tests HDCP, all other channels are HD (duh!) so all you see is the big ugly HD connection/resolution warning box! :icon_lame

 

[ssandhoops]

Mr dvr has HDMI to the tv and component to a Vulcano flow (similar to sling box). I use the Vulcano for remote viewing via ipad but now find the tv must be on to remote view any HBO content, real time or recorded. Unfortunately, I have no way to remotely turn the tv on/off but since most content is also available via HBO GO, not a big issue.

 

[Lije Baley]

I would strongly recommend against disconnecting/reconnecting HDMI cables on a regular basis. The jack and connector are very delicate. If you feel you really have no alternative, then use a port saver like this one from Monoprice. That way if you break something, it's not the jack on the back of the equipment. $2 for the port saver is way cheaper than replacing the HDMI jack on the equipment...

BTW, the HDCP warning message on S-Video is useless... with the exception of the SD preview channel, 200, which tests HDCP, all other channels are HD (duh!) so all you see is the big ugly HD connection/resolution warning box! :icon_lame

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware of the risk to the internal DVR port. The cable is on its way and seems cheap insurance against the possible damage. When using the DVD recorder, I reduce the DVR output to 480i, so the resolution "warning" screen is not an issue. It's amazing how much less useful the D* DVR has become in the past few months. (My other pet peeve is that when using the guide in "list" mode, rather than "grid" there is now a "hole" about 48 hours out from the time of scanning. The program information skips 20 to 30 hours for all the stations.)

 

[JohnDG]

When using the DVD recorder, I reduce the DVR output to 480i, so the resolution "warning" screen is not an issue.

Does this bypass the problem? That is, are concurrent feeds allowed at 480i resolution?

jdg

 

[Lije Baley]

Does this bypass the problem? That is, are concurrent feeds allowed at 480i resolution?

jdg

Still copy protected in my system. Changing resolution does not affect the protection.

I'm running the DVR by HDMI to the Denon receiver. The Denon feeds the Pansonic display by HDMI as well. Concurrenty, I'm running an S-video output from the DVR directly to the Panasonic DVD recorder. With my setup, I have to disconnect the HDMI connection to the DVR for the signal to be enabled with the DVD recorder when I view copy protected material.

Whatever happened to fair use? I know. I know.

 

[RunnerFL]

Whatever happened to fair use? I know. I know.

Fair use doesn't apply here. Fair use gives you the ability to make a copy of something you OWN like a casette tape, dvd, etc. You don't "own" a recording on a DVR.

 

[P Smith]

Still copy protected in my system. Changing resolution does not affect the protection.

I'm running the DVR by HDMI to the Denon receiver. The Denon feeds the Pansonic display by HDMI as well. Concurrenty, I'm running an S-video output from the DVR directly to the Panasonic DVD recorder. With my setup, I have to disconnect the HDMI connection to the DVR for the signal to be enabled with the DVD recorder when I view copy protected material.

Whatever happened to fair use? I know. I know.

You paid for the recording, so you owned them - but it was unfortunate for you, the movies stored on a drive what you don't own or cannot get full control. So they have the full control and can turn on or off any flag to make your life more expensive, ie you must pay again and again - like a ticket in movie theater.

 

[RunnerFL]

You paid for the recording, so you owned them

Incorrect... You're paying for a service, not ownership of material.

 

[Bill Broderick]

Still copy protected in my system. Changing resolution does not affect the protection.

I'm running the DVR by HDMI to the Denon receiver. The Denon feeds the Pansonic display by HDMI as well. Concurrenty, I'm running an S-video output from the DVR directly to the Panasonic DVD recorder. With my setup, I have to disconnect the HDMI connection to the DVR for the signal to be enabled with the DVD recorder when I view copy protected material.

Whatever happened to fair use? I know. I know.

How is the DVD recorder connected to the TV? My setup is similar to yours. When the DVD recorder was connected to the TV via HDMI, I had the recording problem. When I changed it to Component, the problem went away, as long as the TV was turned on. I would imagine that, in your case, the Denon receiver will need to be turned on as well (I'm not using a receiver in the room with the DVD recorder).

 

[Bill Broderick]

Fair use doesn't apply here. Fair use gives you the ability to make a copy of something you OWN like a casette tape, dvd, etc. You don't "own" a recording on a DVR.

The US Supreme Court disagrees with you there.

Time-shifting
A major electronics manufacturer developed a video tape recording device that allowed the consumer to "time-shift"-record a complete TV program in real-time and hold the show for a later viewing. Several major film studios filed a copyright infringement suit against the electronics manufacturer claiming the device could be used for copyright infringement. In 1984's Sony v. Universal Studios (aka the Betamax case), the Supreme Court held that time-shifting with a VCR qualified as fair use. The courts noted that the private, non-commercial home taping of free television programs for later viewing was not infringing and did not hurt the market value of the copyrighted material

Unfortunately, the DMCA has succeeded in trumping fair use.

 

[CCarncross]

Whatever happened to fair use? I know. I know.

Fair use is working fine....you have a copy of the recording on your dvr, sending it to the DVD recorder would be a 2nd generation copy.

 

[RunnerFL]

The US Supreme Court disagrees with you there.

Time-shifting
A major electronics manufacturer developed a video tape recording device that allowed the consumer to "time-shift"-record a complete TV program in real-time and hold the show for a later viewing. Several major film studios filed a copyright infringement suit against the electronics manufacturer claiming the device could be used for copyright infringement. In 1984's Sony v. Universal Studios (aka the Betamax case), the Supreme Court held that time-shifting with a VCR qualified as fair use. The courts noted that the private, non-commercial home taping of free television programs for later viewing was not infringing and did not hurt the market value of the copyrighted material

That's not fair use either, that just gives you the right to record it to your DVR... Fair use is all about allowing you to make copies of something you OWN. For instance taking a CD and burning MP3's from it is fair use, NOT burning something from a DVR to a DVD.