[veryoldschool]

I have a question about mileage. When someone says they are say...100 miles from the transmitting tower is that nautical miles or road miles??

"As the crow flies", and he's a land bird [hence no nautical knowledge].

 

[paulh]

Can I jump in here. My zip code is 61401. I have an HR21 and will be getting the AM 21 soon. What stations can I realistically be able to receive with an indoor antenna? And what is the best indoor antenna? Thanks! I previously had mixed success with my TIVO250 and a set top indoor antenna. From what I have read, maybe the HR21 and AM 21 will get a better signal than my Tivo250?

With an indoor antenna, it more depends on your surrounding topography and how many walls in your house the signal has to pass through between the Quad Cities and your TV. (Are there any hills/buildings/etc blocking the signal, but it looks like (from the TVFool map that the Quad Cities should be solid with any decent UHF antenna. any other markets will be more of a luck factor with an indoor antenna.)
Remember antennas that look like traditional antennas usually perform better than many new "sleek looking", more expensive antenna's, and and accurate signal to begin with means more than amplification.
Personally I'd start by trying something on the cheaper side, probably from Radio Shack. Currently all Quad City's OTA HDTV is UHF, but they may move back to the old VHF after the transition, so your current ideal antenna may be obsolete next March, unless you want to use that UHF only antenna to try occasionally picking up Peoria stations

 

[jamieh1]

I live about 8 miles east of Washington NC, I get the Raleigh NC OTA stations which are about 90 miles away to the west, I get these stations from around 5pm to 9am.
I have a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna with a preamp. This antenna picks up VHF channels very well also.

 

[MarkN]

"As the crow flies", and he's a land bird [hence no nautical knowledge].

ok smart guy!!

 

[xmguy]

Back when I had OTA TV. I had a huge 20ft roof mounted antenna on a roter I'd turn it the direction I wanted to pick up. Which was 75+ miles away. It fell down during a bad storm many years ago. I bought a small antenna (rabbit-ears) and DTV converter thinking a DIGITAL signal went further. WRONG!! Damn thing wouln't even pick up a SD/HD station about 25-30 miles away that I can pick up now with a small pocket tv with a 4" ant. DTV is the pits! I even hooked the converter to a full size ant about 10 ft off the ground without the converter I could faintly pick up stations 75 miles away with converter the 30 mile station would not come in this is with a huge 6 ft ant. I'm glad I have D* and CableTV back up otherwise I'd be up s*creek!

 

[bubbers44]

Unless you are a boat person all miles are statute miles as the crow flies. 5,280 ft versus 6000 ft. I live 60 statute miles from the Miami transmitters and with an atttic high gain antenna and preamp can get the UHF HD stations but not any of the VHF low power stations. Next Feb I am hoping the VHF HD stations will pump up their power when they can't transmit analog VHF any more.

 

[paulh]

Back when I had OTA TV. I had a huge 20ft roof mounted antenna on a roter I'd turn it the direction I wanted to pick up. Which was 75+ miles away. It fell down during a bad storm many years ago. I bought a small antenna (rabbit-ears) and DTV converter thinking a DIGITAL signal went further. WRONG!! Damn thing wouln't even pick up a SD/HD station about 25-30 miles away that I can pick up now with a small pocket tv with a 4" ant. DTV is the pits! I even hooked the converter to a full size ant about 10 ft off the ground without the converter I could faintly pick up stations 75 miles away with converter the 30 mile station would not come in this is with a huge 6 ft ant. I'm glad I have D* and CableTV back up otherwise I'd be up s*creek!

Don't blame DTV on what may be completely different issues regarding your DTV signals.

1) most DTV stations are currently using UHF. Stations must now broadcast 2 frequencies at the same time, and there are not available VHF frequencies in most markets. "Rabbit Ears" are for VHF, "Bow Ties" are for the shorter UHF wavelengths. VHF signals travel beyond the horizon (Good for 75+ mile reception) , UHF does not reliable travel beyond line of sight (Bad for 75+ mile reception). You might get lucky attempting to use a VHF antenna for UHF DTV coverage, but you are not that lucky guy. Use the above TVFool link to find out what your DTV stations are and get an appropriate antenna for your frequencies. Please note after the analog cutoff, most stations may start broadcasting DTV from their "old" analog frequency, so after the cutoff you might get better luck with your current setup.

2) Personally, I get perfect DTV reception from my HDTV FOX station 30 miles away with a mere $3 Radio Shack bowtie dangling below my TV. (Now I admit the location of my house (not obstructed by hills or other buildings) and my TV (which is facing the antenna location and only has one outside wall to pass through) is more of an ideal situation.

3) remember the greatest problem with DTV coverage is "multipath" Multipath is the same thing as analog "ghosting" DTV (especially older tuners) does not know what to do with many multipathing issues, so there is no usable signal to decode. Get a more directional antenna to eliminate multipat issues. Sometimes moving the antenna an inch or 2 can make a big difference (It does when I pick up other DTV stations with my "dangling bowtie")

 

[xmguy]

Don't blame DTV on what may be completely different issues regarding your DTV signals.

1) most DTV stations are currently using UHF. Stations must now broadcast 2 frequencies at the same time, and there are not available VHF frequencies in most markets. "Rabbit Ears" are for VHF, "Bow Ties" are for the shorter UHF wavelengths. VHF signals travel beyond the horizon (Good for 75+ mile reception) , UHF does not reliable travel beyond line of sight (Bad for 75+ mile reception). You might get lucky attempting to use a VHF antenna for UHF DTV coverage, but you are not that lucky guy. Use the above TVFool link to find out what your DTV stations are and get an appropriate antenna for your frequencies. Please note after the analog cutoff, most stations may start broadcasting DTV from their "old" analog frequency, so after the cutoff you might get better luck with your current setup.

2) Personally, I get perfect DTV reception from my HDTV FOX station 30 miles away with a mere $3 Radio Shack bowtie dangling below my TV. (Now I admit the location of my house (not obstructed by hills or other buildings) and my TV (which is facing the antenna location and only has one outside wall to pass through) is more of an ideal situation.

3) remember the greatest problem with DTV coverage is "multipath" Multipath is the same thing as analog "ghosting" DTV (especially older tuners) does not know what to do with many multipathing issues, so there is no usable signal to decode. Get a more directional antenna to eliminate multipat issues. Sometimes moving the antenna an inch or 2 can make a big difference (It does when I pick up other DTV stations with my "dangling bowtie")

I bought this : http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ndex.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family
VHF/UHF/HDTV antenna. I know VHF goes further. But what's crazy that now I can get a UHF channel about 20+ miles away on analog on a small pocket tv 4" antenna. With an 10 ft antenna VHF/UHF outdoor antenna 10 ft off the ground. Would not get squat via the DTV converter.

 

[paulh]

I bought this : http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ndex.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family
VHF/UHF/HDTV antenna. I know VHF goes further. But what's crazy that now I can get a UHF channel about 20+ miles away on analog on a small pocket tv 4" antenna. With an 10 ft antenna VHF/UHF outdoor antenna 10 ft off the ground. Would not get squat via the DTV converter.

That antenna, unfortunately, looks like an omnidirectional antenna, and omnidirectional antennas, while good for getting signals from different tower locations in ideal locations, are worst in multipath issues.
In general, I am suspect at any "circuitry" to reduce multipath issues vs conventional outdoor antenna design that uses metal grids to blocking interfering signals, and amplification is really not needed on a set top antenna. (Amplification is only needed to compensate for signal loss on the wire between an outdoor / attic antenna and TV, and in the worst case scenario an amplifier may result in more noise being added to the signal.)

Although I do not have any experience with this one, many, many HDTV users report that the "Silver Sensor" is the best performing indoor UHF antenna: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html Since the silver sensor is so highly directional, it may not be ideal for picking up all stations at the same time if you need to receive from multiple tower locations.

 

[Rakul]

That antenna, unfortunately, looks like an omnidirectional antenna, and omnidirectional antennas, while good for getting signals from different tower locations in ideal locations, are worst in multipath issues.

Actually I think it's directional, it has a little remote and a rotor inside to spin it around. I have one but don't use it that often, works great for pulling in Charlottesville stations which are 20-30 miles from me. Can't get the Richmond stations which are 30+ though.

 

[xmguy]

Actually I think it's directional, it has a little remote and a rotor inside to spin it around. I have one but don't use it that often, works great for pulling in Charlottesville stations which are 20-30 miles from me. Can't get the Richmond stations which are 30+ though.

Your right. It came with a remote for turning the UHF antenna inside the saucer shaped section. I'm inclined to think the DTV converter was CRAP!

 

[arxaw]

3) remember the greatest problem with DTV coverage is "multipath" Multipath is the same thing as analog "ghosting" DTV (especially older tuners) does not know what to do with many multipathing issues, so there is no usable signal to decode...

Fortunately, most newer DTV tuners ignore multipath, or even use it to their advantage.

 

[arxaw]

...I have a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna with a preamp. This antenna picks up VHF channels very well also.

the 4228 has very high gain for UHF channels 14 thru 51. It also works quite well for upper VHF channels 9 thru 13, so-so for 7 & 8 and not too well for chs 2 thru 6. Fortunately, most DTV stations were smart enough to abandon the low VHF band, because it's too prone to interference for reliable DTV use.

To the OP, if you can't get decent OTA, you probably qualify for HD channels from NY on DirecTV. Enter your address here to see if it says "ELIGIBLE" for any of the networks.

 

[ziggy29]

For those of you who are more knowledgeable about these things...here's my situation. Out in my ZIP code (78643, Austin DMA) I only have one local of any consequence that can be pulled in well from here (KXAM 14.1, which gets a strong signal with a cheap set of indoor rabbit ears through an HR20-700). All the others look like they'd need high gain and deep fringe UHF antennas. At least all the signals are from the same direction (119 or 120) so a strong directional without rotor might suffice, but it's about 60 miles and quite hilly. I see tvfool.com shows the signals to be from -102 to-108 dBm (for those who know what that means).

So in reality I think I can only get the one OTA channel, which I'm getting with a small set-top indoor antenna. (Fortunately that one is a LIN station which I otherwise couldn't get in HD through D*).

For those of you in the know...does it wound like I'm stuck? I don't want to buy the equipment and the installation and find out it was likely a waste.

 

[K4SMX]

Sixty miles is quite doable, but not if you're at the bootom of the hill looking up. So a lot depends on your local topography. Flat ground should be no problem.

 

[gocardinals]

With an indoor antenna, it more depends on your surrounding topography and how many walls in your house the signal has to pass through between the Quad Cities and your TV. (Are there any hills/buildings/etc blocking the signal, but it looks like (from the TVFool map that the Quad Cities should be solid with any decent UHF antenna. any other markets will be more of a luck factor with an indoor antenna.)
Remember antennas that look like traditional antennas usually perform better than many new "sleek looking", more expensive antenna's, and and accurate signal to begin with means more than amplification.
Personally I'd start by trying something on the cheaper side, probably from Radio Shack. Currently all Quad City's OTA HDTV is UHF, but they may move back to the old VHF after the transition, so your current ideal antenna may be obsolete next March, unless you want to use that UHF only antenna to try occasionally picking up Peoria stations

Thanks! Very informative.. just waiting for the AM21 now.

 

[ziggy29]

Sixty miles is quite doable, but not if you're at the bootom of the hill looking up. So a lot depends on your local topography. Flat ground should be no problem.

Thanks. We're in a town which sits in a wide river valley. But the hills around us aren't that high and the elevation here is about 500' higher than where the transmitters are, so maybe that might help a little?

I'm looking at possibly a CM 4228 with amplifier (I was considering a DB8 but my understanding is that they might be as good a choice after 2009), but I'd hate to find out it was a waste of money up here. I should probably start asking around if there's even anyone up here that does antenna installs; most of them are doing satellite now.

 

[arxaw]

... I'm looking at possibly a CM 4228 with amplifier (I was considering a DB8 but my understanding is that they might be as good a choice after 2009)..

I think you meant the DB8 might not be as good a choice after 2009 as the 4228. The DB8 doesn't have as much gain for VHF chs 7 thru 13 as the 4228 does.

KTBC-DT, Fox Austin will be moving to VHF channel 7 in 2009. Neither of these antennas has a lot of gain for 7, so fringe viewers may need a separate VHF antenna for 7.

The CM 7777 is a good low noise VHF/UHF preamp. It can be used with combined V/U input or switched for using separate VHF & UHF antennas.

.

 

[ziggy29]

I think you meant the DB8 might not be as good a choice after 2009 as the 4228. The DB8 doesn't have as much gain for VHF chs 7 thru 13 as the 4228 does.

Yeah, that's what I meant, thanks. Neither is that great with 7, but it seems like the 4228 is a little better than the DB8 in that respect.

Would a preamp be better than an amplifier in my case, in this fringe area? Most of what I read told me to go for a high gain, relatively "deep fringe" directional antenna with an amplifier. And again, since almost every station's transmitter is within 1-2 degrees of each other, a plain directional antenna should suffice if I can pick up the fringe signals from 60 hilly miles away.

 

[arxaw]

...Would a preamp be better than an amplifier in my case, in this fringe area? Most of what I read told me to go for a high gain, relatively "deep fringe" directional antenna with an amplifier. And again, since almost every station's transmitter is within 1-2 degrees of each other, a plain directional antenna should suffice if I can pick up the fringe signals from 60 hilly miles away.

Definitely a preamp, vs a regular "coax" amp. You want to amplify the signal as close to the antenna as possible. Amplifying the other end of the coax amplifies any noise the cable picked up. Gain numbers shown on amps at big box stores and Rat Shack are often grossly inflated. Avoid them.

I use a 4228 + 7777 for stations ~71 mi away and receive all of them @ 100% signal strength on. I'm also on a ridge top, which helps. I also get VHF chs 9 (digital), 10 (analog) & 13 (analog) perfectly. Lower VHF numbers will probably not work as well with the 4228. YMMV.