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· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, asking for general advice how to handle 2nd visit from installer

My original order was for HR21 and R22 but since I wanted HR22 and they were available at Costco, I made arrangements with DTV to have first install occur where they said "installer will activate your HR22, we'll send you a return box for the HR21"

Long story on the first try, installing, there was plenty o miscommunication from installer, calling Phillipines to activate (tried to just mod the order to show the HR22 as "customer owned", Phillipines response: "can only do that if customer agrees to pay $70 change fee"

Meanwhile I'm on phone with DTV (very helpful) who ends up advising let installer activate the R22, and the HR21, then after he leaves, she'll walk me through swap the HR22 and activate it, and oh by the way why don't you keep the HR21 and just return the R22.

So far so good but ,,

HR22 would not activate due to hard fail on 103

On further inspection the readings on 101, 110, 119 are OK but I have nothing on 99 or 103.

Went up on the roof to check mast for plumb with a torpedo level, set it on the horizontal plate at top of the mast and it's not even close to level

LNB assembly does not feel secure but I don't know if that's normal (it can move a bit, left/right)

Didn't use SWM so the pull into the house was two pairs of two-wire RG6 cable and no ground

DTV gave extra month credit before charges commenced plus credit for $5 against monthly charge for the R22 that needs to go back

I have no objection to level of customer service from DTV but installer, crikey what a mess

Any advice / recommendation on stuff to ask for / verify / observe / insist on when next installer comes out?

Thanks in advance all great weekend to everyone
 

· Godfather
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msanjola said:
Hello everyone, asking for general advice how to handle 2nd visit from installer

My original order was for HR21 and R22 but since I wanted HR22 and they were available at Costco, I made arrangements with Dish to have first install occur where they said "installer will activate your HR22, we'll send you a return box for the HR21"

Long story on the first try, installing, there was plenty o miscommunication from installer, calling Phillipines to activate (tried to just mod the order to show the HR22 as "customer owned", Phillipines response: "can only do that if customer agrees to pay $70 change fee"

Meanwhile I'm on phone with Dish individual (very helpful) who ends up advising let installer activate the R22, and the HR21, then after he leaves, she'll walk me through swap the HR22 and activate it, and oh by the way why don't you keep the HR21 and just return the R22.

So far so good but ,,

HR22 would not activate due to hard fail on 103

On further inspection the readings on 100, 101, 110 are OK but I have nothing on 99 or 103.

Went up on the roof to check mast for plumb with a torpedo level, set it on the horizontal plate at top of the mast and it's not even close to level

LNB assembly does not feel secure but I don't know if that's normal (it can move a bit, left/right)

Didn't use SWM so the pull into the house was two pairs of two-wire RG6 cable and no ground

DISH gave extra month credit before charges commenced plus credit for $5 against monthly charge for the R22 that needs to go back

I have no objection to level of customer service from DISH but installer, crikey what a mess

Any advice / recommendation on stuff to ask for / verify / observe / insist on when next installer comes out?

Thanks in advance all great weekend to everyone
You need to go back over your post and change references to "DISH Network" to "Directv". I know, a dish is a dish.:)

You need to make sure that you have signal reading in the 80s or higher on sats 99c and 103c before the next tech leaves. Have him get the recievers activated, his job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
2dogz thanks for the gentleness of the correction.

I figure with mast out of plumb pointless to get into the readings that show for individual transponders -- it is pretty spotty "as is" on satellites that I'm getting.

Some in the high 90's and some 30 or less but no discernable pattern (like an odd/even sort of issue)
 

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Do you have BBC's installed on the HD receivers? You need to make sure your mast is plumb when the second installer arrives and that your dish is securely mounted using monopole adjustable mast arm braces, which the caller should have on his truck. They are required for most installations, except pole mounts and masonry mounts. Don't let him leave until you get tp signals on 99(c) and 103(c) that are mostly all in the 90's
 

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Like K4SMX said, make sure the BBC's are attached to both HD receivers.

If they are connected, and your still not getting 99(c) & 103(c), then walk through your house and make sure you don't have an old multiswitch somewhere in your setup. The only approved multiswitches that can handle 99 & 103 satellites are the WB68, WB616, SWM5, and SWM8.
 

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What I don't get is if an HR21 and a R22 pass the IV, then why would the HR22 fail? Could be software related. There is an issue on all the HDDVRs that requires at least two software downloads before it will pass the 103even. Something to the effect of it checking for a transponder that optimimly reads around 85-87 and it checks for 93 or higher.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Supervolcano said:
Like K4SMX said, make sure the BBC's are attached to both HD receivers.

If they are connected, and your still not getting 99(c) & 103(c), then walk through your house and make sure you don't have an old multiswitch somewhere in your setup. The only approved multiswitches that can handle 99 & 103 satellites are the WB68, WB616, SWM5, and SWM8.
The old dish I've got (and which is still operating, pending getting DTV up and running) was self installed by me on chimney mount in 2000. Before that there was no sat and new HDDVR's on on new RG6 -- the Dish rig does have a multiswitch, on separate cable, is it possible it can interfere (initially I'm thinking "no way" but then again, what if there's radio waves or asymmetric pulse wave modulation ground fault eddy current) (yes I'm making that up)

BBC's were installed . After reading some others' problems on this and other forums I swapped the BBC's and it made no difference. HR22 setup routine is failing because it doesn't see 103, HR21 did not refuse to complete install, even though it can't see 103, activation routine for HR21 apparently doesn't consider having 103 visible a non-negotiable "fail" like HR22.

I'm actually glad that's the case. If not for that the installer would have skipped out and no telling how long it would be before I figured out I got no 99 or 103.

Thanks again for the assist. Appreciated.
 

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msanjola said:
If not for that the installer would have skipped out and no telling how long it would be before I figured out I got no 99 or 103.
Oh, wouldn't be too long. Right about the time you decided to try out those 100 HD channels that D* advertises they have. :)
 

· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
2dogz said:
Oh, wouldn't be too long. Right about the time you decided to try out those 100 HD channels that D* advertises they have. :)
Ok so, the second visit was "just OK" the installer did not try to do anything to re-level the mast. The bubble level is showing bubble touching the ring on one side and not close to being in the center but he just went through the normal retune on the dish and did a forced download using code 02468 on the HR22.

I insisted on getting signal up on 99 and 103, which he did (reluctantly) at the expense of lower peaks on 110 and 119.

I figured WTF if I get 99 and 103 mostly at least in the 70's it's progress.

Which is pretty much where I'm at.

99c and 103c reads are mostly just above or just below 70.

101, 110, 119 are mostly high-80's or 90's.

Question for the gang: if I level the dish (get the frickin bubble in the middle not the edge) do I have decent odds self tuning the dish to get 80's on all the birds 99-119?

It was the last visit of the day for the installer and verging on sundown. I had the guy (and myself) up and down off the roof three times to get where I ended up.

I figure odds are good I'll get all the stations (any prediction / "think again bub" on that?) and can improve if I need to by tuning the dish myself.

Once again thanks everyone. :rolleyes:
 

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Ouch!!! I don't mean to be mean, and don't want to make you feel bad, but i don't know how to say it nicely.

All the people who commented here recommended you get the installer to level it AND to make sure 103c and 99c are in the 80's or 90's AND to not sign off on the workorder until both were accomplished.

If it was late, I'd have offered him a $20 or even $40 if he got them above 80%.

But hindsight is 20/20.
Sorry I ranted.
Maybe the next guy who reads this will learn from this.

------------------------

Bottom line: It's got to be retweaked again or the first sight of a wet rain cloud is going to plummet your mpeg4hd signals on 99c and 103c to zeros if they are below 70% on a clear day ... ALTHOUGH I see you live in L.A. which doesn't get much bad weather.

Guess no one here really pointed out that 103/99 have very finicky signals that drop far more rapidly than what happens to 101/110/119 when weather strikes.

Picture will get flakey when signals drop to 40%, or even 50% sometimes.

------------------------

Yes, if you can level it and then get a friend to yell out signal strengths while your on the roof playing with it ... you can probably get stronger signals.

Once it's level, use up/down and left/right to peak the signals on 101. Then use the tilt to peak 119. Then try using the fine tuning bolts to carefully play with 99c and 103c.

Best of luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Supervolcano said:
Ouch!!! I don't mean to be mean, and don't want to make you feel bad, but i don't know how to say it nicely.

All the people who commented here recommended you get the installer to level it AND to make sure 103c and 99c are in the 80's or 90's AND to not sign off on the workorder until both were accomplished.

If it was late, I'd have offered him a $20 or even $40 if he got them above 80%.

But hindsight is 20/20.
Sorry I ranted.
Maybe the next guy who reads this will learn from this.

------------------------

Bottom line: It's got to be retweaked again or the first sight of a wet rain cloud is going to plummet your mpeg4hd signals on 99c and 103c to zeros if they are below 70% on a clear day ... ALTHOUGH I see you live in L.A. which doesn't get much bad weather.

Guess no one here really pointed out that 103/99 have very finicky signals that drop far more rapidly than what happens to 101/110/119 when weather strikes.

Picture will get flakey when signals drop to 40%, or even 50% sometimes.

------------------------

Yes, if you can level it and then get a friend to yell out signal strengths while your on the roof playing with it ... you can probably get stronger signals.

Once it's level, use up/down and left/right to peak the signals on 101. Then use the tilt to peak 119. Then try using the fine tuning bolts to carefully play with 99c and 103c.

Best of luck.
Hey no worries it's not a rant and you're doing your bit to help the next guy good on ya mate.

I'll tip it to the center, bubble-wise, and see how it goes. For those of you who don't imagine I'll just say this resource is beyond price, value-wise, the installers ahem do their best and the customers ahem likewise. I'll get it right (with a little help from my friends which is you-all) by being persistant and polite and to the extent possible self-reliant. In times like these, especially important we all do our best.

Amen. God bless, everyone. I mean that. And thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ironwood said:
How do you know the bubble level is not broken or twisted? Does the mast look unlevel? Torpedo level is not a good measure either after dish is already installed.
The mast looks close to plumb, initially I was not aware of the bubble level location

That's why I figured small torpedo level was best / only way for me to spot check for plumb, assuming if laid flat on the top plate it would ideally read level on any axis/orientation -- so long of course as the torpedo level is sitting flat (not skewed in any way by resting on a screw or surface abnormality)

What would you use as a better plumb check, some other variation on bubble level?

I didn't sign off on anything, not that it matters. Tech that came out had a replacement HR22 on the truck and initially asked if he was supposed to install that one -- but also saw note on my account indicating HR22 I bought from Costco shows "customer owned" so I guess that's worth something.

Haven't had any weather yet, to put the sorry signals to task and see if we lose reception in rain etc. Will just try to peak it up a bit. Is there a link to one or more posts with any step by step instruction, sequence-wise, to true up my install?

It's slimline 5 roof mount mast with two monopole braces.

Thanks once again.
 

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· Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Dish aiming per street address (resolving to 34.1754, -118.4642 Lat/Lon) on Sadoun resolves to 137.7, 46.1, 113.8

Dish aiming per DTV web pointer (just based on zip) is 136.5 and 46.2

I'd reckon the lat/lon coordinates are truer point of beginning. Comments?
 

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Any dish aiming sources you use are just rough estimates.
Your dish is obviously "close", so your way past the guesstimating stage.

If you have to remove the dish to rework how it's attached, make notes of where it's currently aiming towards, like picking out what tree or roof the dish's arm is pointed towards, and maybe marking where the dish is on the mast with an ink pen before you remove it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The mast (per the bubble level) needs to move a small amount away from the roof edge. My plan thus far is to loosen two monopole braces, ease up the pole main bolts on mast base, squeeze it over then retighten everything.

I'm expecting this sequence likely results in lower reception, hoping for something other than complete loss, have to prepare for that potential.

Cheap meters (20-25 bucks) a good idea? Does any body rent that gear (for better models) ?

In reply to myself there's http://www.spectrumspot.com/solutions/acutrac3.html $50 for 10 days versus $220 to purchase (and then decide to keep or sell on ebay?)

And in further reply (in case anyone else is following this with view toward making a stab at repeaking on your own) http://www.satpro.tv/pdf/acutrac3+.pdf (the manual for the Acutrac III)

I think odds of good result would be much higher with this meter (and achieved faster) vs trying to peak it with someone in the house telling you what's showing, signal-wise, on TV
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It seems like peaking signal using meter based on audible signal strength indicator would be quite a bit faster / easier than doing it by dithering.

But pro installer did it by the book (coarse aim, rough tune, then start counting turns on fine tuning bolts to find equidistant readings and spin back to a midpoint)

I'm thinking no way would pro installer pass up a faster / easier method so what am I missing with my first guess (about how just peaking the tone is a shortcut)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Q: Should the elevation indicator be the same on both sides of the satellite mount?

Went up on the roof with camera to document the "as is" settings and noticed elevation read on the side away from fine tune bolt is inside of 47 and on the fine tune bolt side it's about 48

Looks as if the bolt may have been very tight on the right hand side while fine tuning pressure was being applied on the left

Seems like an unwanted source of distortion / stress on the alignment

Also ,, the bubble level ,, I made it disappear.

I was looking at it today and it appeared to be pretty close to centered except the plastic ring was out of alignment with the hole it fits into in top of mast. So I pressed down on it thinking it wasn't seated right and *tink* down the mast hole it went.

As best I can determine the mast is not plumb based on what I think I'm seeing using torpedo level but with the dish mounted it's not that easy to position the level with highly confident position / firm contact on two vertical axes to true this up

bleah
 
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