[ddarche]

Hi Folks,

RE: DirecTv HR24 recordings, whole home system

A golf nut here and I thought I found a way to record repeating events that are not actually considered a "series", ie:, golf.

It had been working fine last summer/fall but suddenly it is not doing it correctly.

I found a thread many months ago which suggested a nifty recording trick. Maybe a firmware update made it stop working properly?

Since it is very difficult to record many of the golf events, it was suggested on some forum to put in the following search and then set to auto record:

AALL PGA TOUR GOLF LIVE NNOT EUROPEAN

You can vary what you want to record after the AALL and you can add anything after the NNOT. I just happened to not want the European Golf recorded.

This worked wonderfully until this late winter. Using this lately, it now records the Golf Channel portion of a “split” event on ch 218 but then the DVR does not record the major network version of the broadcast, which typically follows the Golf Channel event. Could be NBC, CBS, FOX or ABC.

Of course I can go into the guide or the Series manager and add the major network part of the broadcast but the idea is that I don’t want to have to worry about it and do it manually each week.

For those that may not be familiar with golf broadcasts; The golf channel Ch 218 tends to carry the early a.m. part of a broadcast. Usually before the major networks do their part on the weekend.

So, a golf tournament starts on Thursday and the Golf Channel will carry the coverage into Friday. Then on the weekend the golf channel carries the early morning part and the major networks (could be any Fox, NBC, ABC or CBS) tend to carry the afternoon portion of the broadcast. So, this "split concept" is very hard to manage on the HR24 or any DVR for that matter, as far as I know.

For example, I used this same search/ auto record to record 49er football games last year. Another case of a weekly event which is not considered a series. It worked perfectly all last year.

AALL 49ER FOOTBALL LIVE and then set it to auto record and you can then choose first run, not repeats and all of that, when to end the recording, overtime, etc.

1) Anyone have any thoughts to why this may have changed in the past few months? Broadcast split between two different networks?
2) Am I missing some other easy way to set this up?

 

[lgb0250]

I'm very interested in seeing a solution to this problem myself.

For the last few months I've had to go into the guide and record the major network portion of tournaments because the series manager just quit working for the CBS, ABC, etc portion of these events.

Besides that, I'm really not interested in having to record Nationwide or Champions events much less European ones.

 

[DogLover]

Someone (maybe it was one of you guys) said in another thread that it appears the reason his Autorecord stopped working was because the local channel broadcasts are no longer being marked as live broadcasts.

If that's the case, you could try Taking off the LIVE keyword, but that might record too much. You might try a second Autorecord without LIVE and adding CCHAN 2 69, to record the locals.

 

[Richierich]

You probably have been Reading my Posts and here is the latest one.

"Normally, The Golf Channel broadcasts it first as a "Live" Event from 1:00 P.M. to 3:00 P.M. and then a National Broadcast will pick the broadcast it at 3:00 P.M. or sometimes 4:00 P.M.

However, about 6 or 7 months ago the Guide Data Tags were changed and now the Golf Channel Broadcast lists it as a "Live" Events and the National Broadcast (NBC, ABC or CBS) shows it as just Events and Not "Live".

I have talked to Doug Brott (who now works for Directv) and he is looking into why Zap2It is Not getting the Guide Data Tag right and we will see if it gets fixed. He has Alerted the appropriate people in the appropriate department to find out why Zap2It is not passing along the "Live" Tag.

However, someone in Zap2It owned by Tribune Services thinks the 3:00 P.M. "Live" Broadcast is a Rerun so someone (probably not a Golfer) has removed the "Live" Guide Data Tag so I have had to set up many other Boolean Links to work around this Flaw in the Guide Data.

As a workaround I have removed the "Live" Tag and created a Boolean Link for each of the 3 National Broadcast Stations in my area which are ABC, CBS and NBC and that works but it is a lot of work which before was accomplished with just One Boolean Search Argument and hopefully Directv will get Zap2It to correct reinsert their "Live" Guide Data Tag.

I am seeing the "Live" Tag in the Shell Houston Open for Thursday's Round so maybe they have fixed it. I won't know for sure until we get a Tournament that comes on The Golf Channel at 1:00 P.M. and then on a National Broadcast at 3:00 P.M. or at 4:00 P.M.

I now use "AALL PGA TOUR NNOT EUROPEAN CCHAN 2" and also include 2 more Searches for CCHAN 11 and 46.

 

[ddarche]

Someone (maybe it was one of you guys) said in another thread that it appears the reason his Autorecord stopped working was because the local channel broadcasts are no longer being marked as live broadcasts.

If that's the case, you could try Taking off the LIVE keyword, but that might record too much. You might try a second Autorecord without LIVE and adding CCHAN 2 69, to record the locals.

I did notice the "live" part of the title had changed and thought if I changed the keyword it would fix it but it seems to act the same.

I experimented with several different sets of "PGA" oriented keywords and the results were a bit inconsistent in recording the golf channel portion (using first run), it missed some days but still none of the major network recordings happened unless setup manually.

Your other comments are interesting and I will do some more experimenting and report back.

Thx DD

 

[plehrack]

You might try changing the word 'LIVE' to 'EVENT' which I believe will look at the program type and if it's a live event (same data that asks if you want live padding) as opposed to relying on the word 'LIVE' to appear in the program title or description.

Peter

 

[Richierich]

You might try changing the word 'LIVE' to 'EVENT' which I believe will look at the program type and if it's a live event (same data that asks if you want live padding) as opposed to relying on the word 'LIVE' to appear in the program title or description.

Peter

You have to use the plural word "Events" which I believe I included in mine but just took out the word "Live" when they started excluding "Live".

It has to be Plural "Events" which I just checked again to make sure and that is what is in the Guide Data Info and for the Shell Houston Open it has the words "Live Events" used so maybe Doug was Successful in getting his Directv contacts to have Zap2It change their Guide Data back to "Live Events".

 

[ddarche]

I see a thought from Peter and I will give that a try as well.

In my experiment this a.m., there seems to be more than one anomaly.

There appears to be an inconsistent application of the Live tag but there is something else going on as well.

Has DTV messed with their boolean strings or something? The same boolean I had used all last summer is now giving very inconsistent results. Either that or they introduced a bug in a recent update. Look at the pic below and see if you can spot anything.

One other note: Is there a time delay after adding a new autorecord before certain things will display in the guide properly? These results assume that once the autorecord is set, I should be able to see everything in the Guide and in the Series Mgr?

I almost swear the data keep changing as I bounced around looking at it or I made 5-6 mistakes, which seems odd.

Thx DD

 

[Richierich]

The Saturday and Sunday Golf Tournaments Broadcast by NBC does Not have the "Live" Tag in the Guide Data and that is what your chart agrees with.

So there still appears to be a problem and I will mention it again to Doug Brott to see if he can pass it along to his Directv Counterparts to pass along to Zap2It.

 

[ddarche]

Richie, (EDIT: just noticed something - my bad - the threads at DTV below are from LAST March...my bad - maybe means nothing now...DD)

I posted something similar yesterday on DTV forum and there is one interesting thought brewing there.

Yes, the live tag may be an issue but here are some additional thoughts in the DTV technical support forum. One guy believes he has boxed in the problem:

In DTV High Definition Digital Video Recording (HD DVRs) forum.
Post from user texasbrit 3/31:

It's not a DVR software fault. It looks to me like the two channels are using EXACTLY the same program code in their guide so it looks like the second program is a repeat of the first, and of course the DVR won't record it automatically since it looks like a duplicate of the same program. The DVR won't record duplicates - that's when the same program with exactly the same program/episode code is already on the disk or has been recorded within the last 30 days.

That's also why some reruns of series like Everybody Loves Raymond don't record, because those episodes have already been recorded

Reply from user NeilMyers 3/31:
But I have it set to record all episodes, including repeats

Reply from user texasbrit, 3/31

That does not matter. The DVR will not record duplicates through a series link, as I pointed out. So even though you have it set to record repeats, it won't record a repeat if it is a duplicate, as I described above. The only way you will get a duplicate is if it is recorded by selecting that specific episode.

Reply from user dcd, 3/31:

I tested all of this out in the last week or so. If you simply set the programs to record individually, no series setup, they will record repeats and duplicate names. They will not accept a series setup on two different channels due to duplicate names.

Reply from user texasbrit 3/31:

As dcd says, that should work fine. It's only series link recording that won't record duplicates. But it would be good if the two channels got their act together. When the Olympics were moving backwards and forwards between channels (or Wimbledon tennis) it worked fine because the two channels named the programs slightly differently.

So, any thoughts on this info?

DD

 

[ddarche]

The Saturday and Sunday Golf Tournaments Broadcast by NBC does Not have the "Live" Tag in the Guide Data and that is what your chart agrees with.

So there still appears to be a problem and I will mention it again to Doug Brott to see if he can pass it along to his Directv Counterparts to pass along to Zap2It.

Richie - yes, agree with your observation but any clue how the one Sunday CH 11 got recorded (without the auto record star???) Not Live in the guide, gets recorded?? I have no other golf things setup on this receiver and I checked the livingroom box and deleted all golf on that one when I started this experiment. I know it shows the room name where it was recorded and all that but I don't see any other lone recording setup.

I think there is more to this story...

DD

 

[Richierich]

No, logically it shouldn't have recorded.

I have used my Boolean Argument for years and it always worked until the "Live' Tag got removed about 7 or 8 months ago maybe longer.

The DVR Never thought that the 3:00 P.M. Recording on another Channel (a National Broadcast by either ABC, NBC or CBS) after the 1:00 P.M. Golf Channel Recording was a Duplicate because it was zeroing in on the Keyword in the Boolean Argument "Live" which means it Can Not Be A Duplicate because it is a "Live" Event.

Any time a Final Golf Event is Rebroadcast at 9:30 P.M. it does not state is as a "Live" Event. As long as the Tag "Live" is in the Guide Data it will ignore the Duplicate Logic and select it as a First Run Event.

My Problem started as soon as the "Live" Tag was Deleted erroneously and hopefully I can get Doug Brott to keep after his Directv counterparts to get Zap2It to realize their mistake and correct it.

 

[ddarche]

Interesting and that theory seems correct in mind as well.

I wonder if this all started when NBC sort of merged their golf coverage and gave it to the Golf Channel?? I just Goggled that event and it started in Feb 2011. Maybe that is when this issue began??

The programming powers to be got together and started messing with the tags trying to consolidate or improve or whatever???

DD

 

[Richierich]

Interesting and that theory seems correct in mind as well.

I wonder if this all started when NBC sort of merged their golf coverage and gave it to the Golf Channel?? I just Goggled that event and it started in Feb 2011. Maybe that is when this issue began??
DD

It could be somehow connected but then again how come ABC and CBS don't have the "Live" Tag either when they follow the Golf Channel Broadcast?

It's Not just an NBC/Golf Channel Problem but also shared with ABC & CBS.

 

[Richierich]

Here is a Link to my First Post about this Problem back on March 31st, 2011.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2747289&postcount=7

 

[ddarche]

Richie,

I did email that person you mentioned in another post. I was surprised to get a phone call this a.m. from an operations manager at DTV who was interested in working on the problem. He receives the emails that come into that address you provided. He was very familar with using boolean and all of that.

We had a nice chat and he indicated he was going to put this in front of the engineering team to test out. He mentioned this would be easy to replicate and if they found anything, he felt it would be fairly easy to get to the bottom of the issue. We discussed a number of possibilities. Nice guy...

He was familar with many of the challenges of recording issues with some events, outside of golf. He was quite knowledgeable and mentioned challenges with recording mens and womens college basketball because of similar naming, that the booleans after NNOT had trouble differentiating NNOT Womens versus NNOT mens because they contain the same word patterns, etc.

I suggested that I send him links to these posts as well as some from the DBSTalk forum, as it would provide a lot of background and likely shorten the time to remedy. He was entusiastic to receive this additional info and I sent this a.m.

Keep our fingers crossed, maybe we are getting some traction. I'll keep you posted.

DD

 

[ddarche]

Hey, good news on this issue today. Just when I was thinking that the efforts I put in a few weeks ago might have stalled, I got an email from a DTV guy who said he thinks he could fix the problem and had a few questions. I gave him some info. He writes back today...

"It may take a little bit of time for the Guide Data to update, but I think that we’ve gotten the issue resolved. I’m hoping that it will work for this weekend, but it may take until next weekend’s games to work properly. Let me know if it works the way you expect."

This is good news and I asked him if he could provide some technical information on what he found and what he did to rectify. Hope it works! I am tickled I could have an impact on this issue.

DD

 

[Richierich]

Yes, this is Great News!!!

Of course I thought it was going to be fixed by my guy but that didn't happen so I hope this guy gets it done.

If he is working in Ellen's Office then he probably has the Power to make it Happen.

 

[dpeters11]

Very interesting indeed. Of course it's helpful that it sounds like this fix doesn't require a change on the receiver firmware.

Now, if only they could do the same with CIG (and keep it fixed...)

 

[plehrack]

Do we have the final proposed boolean argument?

Peter