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Banned
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Turns out things you find on google should stay on google, anyway just google it, since it seems that you have to get it from there
 

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King of Awesome
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Uhh....yeah you might want to completely delete this thread...for your safety.
This is not public information.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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I suggested they put up a sticky thread / main thread about remotes.
I suggested the one "Remote Control Codes" over on the DirecTV Forum. The sysadmin put it up on the 20th of June and since then it has had over 10,000 uses.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/remote_codes
 

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I tested the times for some items against my HR23 and they are inline with each other.
 

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Always Searching
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RollsRoyce said:
Turns out things you find on google should stay on google, anyway just google it, since it seems that you have to get it from there
Didn't you post this info in another thread as well? Why the edit here?
 

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Broadcast Engineer
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Yeah, all I can find is some lame stuff on eHow: "Reset your receiver if the video or audio is frozen". Well, duh. How could I ever get by without that gem?

Seriously, I think there is a simple way to see if your DVR is being throttled or not: just hit pause and wait for the screen saver. If it traverses the screen relatively smoothly, that means there are enough CPU cycles to attend to low-priority tasks. If not (if the SS stutters 3 or 4 times or so in a single trip across the screen), that means the CPU is busy, possibly hammered, and if not much is going on, it should not be that busy. Of course DTV has loaded us up with useless crap-apps, and retrofitted us with HD GUIs, and God-knows what else, so busy is sadly the norm.
 

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Broadcast Engineer
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Papa J said:
Who would have thought we would be able to change channels in only 8 seconds in this day and age? Amazing! I bet in 100 years DTV will be able to cut that time in half.
Its called progress, I think.

I remember having cable converters that would change channels as fast as you could push the button; faster in fact than the TV itself (which felt it had to mute video and audio between channel changes).

But really, even though MPEG-4 can have I frames as far as 6.5 seconds apart, channel acquisition time should not take very long, certainly not 8 seconds. Turning native off can help, but DTV sends an I frame every 2 seconds or so, meaning that acquisition time should be no longer than that, and average half of that. They also cleverly route around the HDD R/W delay, so that is not a factor.

If you have a particularly stinky relationship between the HDMI out in the DVR and the HDMI in on your TV or AVR, that can lengthen the time a second or two. Kinda rare, anymore.

There also seems to be some bushwa in the actual IR response time, which does not seem to help. But it is not unusual for a selected program to take a good 10 seconds to begin to play, or to delete; a behavior that seems to have begun coincidental with the HD GUI download.

Its an old story; trying to shove 8 lbs into a 5-lb bag.
 

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TomCat said:
Its called progress, I think.

I remember having cable converters that would change channels as fast as you could push the button; faster in fact than the TV itself (which felt it had to mute video and audio between channel changes).

But really, even though MPEG-4 can have I frames as far as 6.5 seconds apart, channel acquisition time should not take very long, certainly not 8 seconds. Turning native off can help, but DTV sends an I frame every 2 seconds or so, meaning that acquisition time should be no longer than that, and average half of that. They also cleverly route around the HDD R/W delay, so that is not a factor.

If you have a particularly stinky relationship between the HDMI out in the DVR and the HDMI in on your TV or AVR, that can lengthen the time a second or two. Kinda rare, anymore.

There also seems to be some bushwa in the actual IR response time, which does not seem to help. But it is not unusual for a selected program to take a good 10 seconds to begin to play, or to delete; a behavior that seems to have begun coincidental with the HD GUI download.

Its an old story; trying to shove 8 lbs into a 5-lb bag.
My TV [OTA] takes 2 sec to change channel.
My DVR takes 3 secs "if changing to the same resolution".
Changing from MPEG-4 720p to 1080i, or back takes damn near 8 full sec.
It's hard to find any good reason for this with native on.
 

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Godfather
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Hard to find a good reason for a channel change taking 8 seconds or hard to find a good reason for trying to keep it a secret? Maybe both?
 

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Barry in Conyers said:
Hard to find a good reason for a channel change taking 8 seconds or hard to find a good reason for trying to keep it a secret? Maybe both?
Yeah...I don't get that either.

I can change channels via Slingbox connected to an HR24-100 in an average of <4 seconds (which includes a slight delay caused by the Slingbox connection itself). I just replicated that action more than 10 times just now. Directly to that same HR24-100...it takes about 2.5 seconds on average.
 

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Broadcast Engineer
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veryoldschool said:
...Changing from MPEG-4 720p to 1080i, or back takes damn near 8 full sec.
It's hard to find any good reason for this with native on.
I won't claim that I know for sure, but it seems obvious that it is a HDMI handshake issue. Not that this could be considered a "good" reason.

HDMI is kind of like tuner technology, in that both have lots of guidelines, but how you get there is mostly up to the designer, so it is sort of "open" in that regard. This has the advantage of not handcuffing technology to strict standards that would stifle innovation, but it also has the disadvantage of certain equipment not being fully compatible with other equipment. Most HDMI TX is compatible with most HDMI RX, but some is not as compatible, and that can cause late handshakes and other issues. Part of the handshake is agreeing on a new resolution between source and destination. Native "off" might address that.

Just today I had a "no signal" issue when I switched my outboard HDMI switcher. 3 DVRs would show up, but one would not, no matter how many times I switched back and forth. I finally had to switch inputs back and forth on the TV to get the 4th DVR to appear. That has never happened before in the 6 months I've had this switch box. There's 2 minutes I'll never get back.

This is one reason why I will never buy a device without a return policy; you have to see it work well with your existing system before fully committing.
 

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TomCat said:
I won't claim that I know for sure, but it seems obvious that it is a HDMI handshake issue.
I'm not going to claim I know either.
I do know:
Native off and toggling between a 720p & 1080i channel, takes half the time it takes to toggle between the same two channel with native on.
This means a good 3-4 second longer delay for the image.
"Maybe" it's part of an HDMI issues, but it would have to be only resolution related, as removing the change of resolution cuts the time in half, which isn't but a second or so longer than the TV takes to do the same toggling, of the same channels, via its antenna.

Let me add the configuration: HR24 -> HDMI -> Sony Bravia
Also switching native back on caused the same 3-4 sec loss/delay of image without changing channels, as I was tuned to a 720p, but with native off the DVR was outputting 1080i.

I've been using native on since the early days of the HR20-700, and while I've had to wait for the image, I don't remember waiting as long as I have been lately.
 

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Broadcast Engineer
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veryoldschool said:
I'm not going to claim I know either.
I do know:
Native off and toggling between a 720p & 1080i channel, takes half the time it takes to toggle between the same two channel with native on.
This means a good 3-4 second longer delay for the image.
"Maybe" it's part of an HDMI issues, but it would have to be only resolution related, as removing the change of resolution cuts the time in half, which isn't but a second or so longer than the TV takes to do the same toggling, of the same channels, via its antenna.
Then I think for once we may be in agreement. A tuner/demux/decoder recognizing the format flag and the TV readjusting its pixel format to match is pretty easy stuff, and it happens in the blink of an eye; A particular byte in the packet header tells the multi-format switcher in the display what pixel format to assume, and it immediately obeys. Its all hard-coded, and probably completes well before channel/source acquisition even completes, which requires a full GOP to be decoded first.

HDMI handshake is more of a negotiation; the source needs feedback as to whether the destination can accept the order, as well as whether the HDCP allows authorization. This also needs a GOP to be decoded, but there's probably a lot more going on, and there is latency because of that. Maybe the whole system is not all that well designed, who really knows, but the end result is audio and/or video is muted while we wait for the handshake, whether it takes one second or 8 seconds, and that latency can be affected by how compatible the HDMI TX chip and the HDMI RX chip are.

Maybe whatever replaces HDMI in the future will not have this latency, or maybe later permutations of HDMI will handshake faster.
 
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