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Mine was running at 127 with the glass doors open in the entertainment center. I installed two 120mm fans in my entertainment center to cool the HR20 and my Xbox 360. With the glass doors *CLOSED* my unit now reports 116.
 

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Mine has an exhaust fan on top and has had few issues except for locking up three times. The fan has brought the temp down from 126 to 109.

It's pretty loud, though. I'm thinking seriously of trying it again without the fan.
 

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paulman182 said:
Mine has an exhaust fan on top and has had few issues except for locking up three times. The fan has brought the temp down from 126 to 109.

It's pretty loud, though. I'm thinking seriously of trying it again without the fan.
The laptop coolpads with dual fans seem to be just about dead quiet. I'm using one and can't hear a thing unless I got right next to it with my ear. It took the temp down from 127 to 105 +/- 2 degrees.
 

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PoitNarf said:
Constant 131 since day 1. :eek2:
131 is the upper limit of the operating range of a hard drive. If the ambient is that high, I would think that the top plate of the hard drive (where the temperature is measured) is hotter than the 55C limit.

I'm inclined to think that the temperature is actually the CPU temperature.

Now we know that the thermometer goes above 129!
 

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thekochs said:
Well, great feedback. 127F is about 58Celcius.
127F is a little under 53C. Hard drive life drops quickly above 131F. With modern CPUs, the allowable temperature highs run from 141F to 212F ("mobile" processors are designed to take more heat because their cooling systems are poor).

C=(F-32)*5/9
F=32+(C*9/5)
 

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122 here, on glass shelf with 12 inches to either side and to the back, 3 inches above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Earl Bonovich said:
127 is the normal operating temperature for the unit.
Earl, what is the upper limit for temp that that D* is telling you ? Also, is this reading on INFO/TEST the ambient in the box or what ?

I found out when I turn ON the HR20 mine is running about 127F....after a few minutes of live TV it drops to 125F. When I Record a show it goes to 129F...when I view a Recorded show it goes to 131F. Is this still within Normal ? I have this in a electronics rack but it does sit on top of my H20. The H20 ON/OFF does not appear to have any temp effect of HR20. These units are behind glass but completely open on side and back...however on top of HR20 about 1" clearance is another shelf. Seems like most of the heat comes from side vents. Where is fan located in the unit ?

Also, I know it is not operational but the USB port on the back of the HR20/H20 appear to be powered ? I put a USB stick into the slot and it's power light came on. However, I noticed that the port must be powered no matter if the HR20/H20 is ON or OFF. This is too bad....wish it would cut power when the unit is OFF....this way you could put a cool pad on top the unit and power from USB....the unit would only be on when the settop is. If you are giving suggestions to D* this would be a good one.

Also.....this was posted on another thread but thought would include here. http://www.cool-components.com/33.html So, I guess you could go Coolpad for ~ $30 connect to HR20 USB or AC but powered whether box is ON/OFF. Else, I like the inline heat sensor they have but the threshold is 73F....guess you'd have to try to see what the outside temp on top the HR20 is verus the 125F-130F inside temp.....which I guess is the ambient inside box ?...not sure. Anyway, this stuff is more expensive but looks like better for AV rack or cabnet items like DVR than Coolpads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
harsh said:
131 is the upper limit of the operating range of a hard drive. If the ambient is that high, I would think that the top plate of the hard drive (where the temperature is measured) is hotter than the 55C limit.

I'm inclined to think that the temperature is actually the CPU temperature.

Now we know that the thermometer goes above 129!
I agree with you on the HDD 55C limit...some of the Maxtor CE drives spec 60C though. However, I'm guessing the CPU is not measured but maybe the HDD. The CPU is not running that many MIPS in these boxes.....maybe 300-500 or so but the HDD is the biggest point of failure so my bet is the temp is the HDD. That said, sure is pushing the limit at 131F. Also, when I playback recording the temp rises, live TV it drops to 125F.
 

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So I have a big problem with cooling in my setup, we built it for asthetics (spelling?) and not like cooling.

Here's a picture of it, http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/Jomanscool2/TVsetup.jpg

we are going to remove the old serires SD tivo as soon as we finish the recording on it, but we were thinking of investing in some airflow products.

The cabinet is completely sealed (i know, horrible) with wood, except for 3 1 and a half inch cable holes.

any idea as to what I should do?

I looked at that link to cool-components, and thought about mounting two of these, http://www.cool-components.com/m6_view_item.html?m6:item=CP-VP-101WHT , to pull the air up and our from the cabinet to behind the TV (athetics mainly, keeps them hidden, and the tv can retain some of the noise).

Any other ideas? We could also just put a flat unpowered vent in to allow the air to rise out, but I figure, if I could have a super low noise fan running to accelerate the flow of air, why not?

Just any suggestions in my cooling situation in general would be great.

we currently just leave it open and that keeps the hr20 running at 128 so eh.
 

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Looking at you pics, here are some suggestions:

1. Put in some shelves to separate the equipment a little bit. With everything so close it would be hard for air to move around the equipment and conduct heat away.

2. Put in some kind of fan to move the air. It could just circulate like a convection oven... that would at least pull the heat away from the components, but you'd only get it all down to some steady state value that is probably higher than you'd like.

3. Vent the air out of the cabinet. It looks like the doors need to stay as is, but what about venting through the bottom of the cabinet floor and then out the kick plate below the doors? You could get a quiet fan to push or pull air in one side on the front and then out the other side in the back. You should be able to get something acceptable looking in the kickplate area.

4. Look at the laptop coolpads, etc. as discussed in other threads, but I'd combine that with #3. You need to get the heat out of that box.
 

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runopenloop said:
Looking at you pics, here are some suggestions:

1. Put in some shelves to separate the equipment a little bit. With everything so close it would be hard for air to move around the equipment and conduct heat away.

2. Put in some kind of fan to move the air. It could just circulate like a convection oven... that would at least pull the heat away from the components, but you'd only get it all down to some steady state value that is probably higher than you'd like.

3. Vent the air out of the cabinet. It looks like the doors need to stay as is, but what about venting through the bottom of the cabinet floor and then out the kick plate below the doors? You could get a quiet fan to push or pull air in one side on the front and then out the other side in the back. You should be able to get something acceptable looking in the kickplate area.

4. Look at the laptop coolpads, etc. as discussed in other threads, but I'd combine that with #3. You need to get the heat out of that box.
Thank you for your suggestions, but there are a few problems.

One, the cabinet was designed for a 4x3 Tv, and then expanded to the right o accomadate 16:9 monitors, so the inside is a very weird shape. I can show you a picture of the upper shelfs, but the shelfs have to go all the way back from every corner or it would not be stable. We could drill holes through it for cables, but how would that decrease airflow? Instead, just thinking of this, we could maybe get a mini stand alone rackmount system installed? just a thought, and then we could tie that rats nest with calbe ties and keep it all nice and clean.

two, im not sure that would really help my situation, it is perfectally cool when it is open, but when closed, the entire cabinet becomes and oven in under 12 hours. increasing the airflow inside wouldn't seem to really help get the heat OUT would it?

three, I thought off this too, seemeed very acceptable, as it would have the fans further back behind the front of the cabinet (I would assume it would dampen the noise), it would look great having only like basically what appears as a heating vent, and it would also draw out alot of the warm air. But first off, that would probably be the most expensive of the options avaiable to us. and two, wouldn't we be FORCED to get some sort of a racmounting system or something to keep it off of the ground so that it isn't sitting on a vent?

and for four, I was planning on getting that, or maybe one of those dual fan cooling units. Those looked pretty good, but I guess that do the exact same thing as a laptop cooling pad.

excellent suggestions though.
 

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Jomanscool2 said:
three, I thought off this too, seemeed very acceptable, as it would have the fans further back behind the front of the cabinet (I would assume it would dampen the noise), it would look great having only like basically what appears as a heating vent, and it would also draw out alot of the warm air. But first off, that would probably be the most expensive of the options avaiable to us. and two, wouldn't we be FORCED to get some sort of a racmounting system or something to keep it off of the ground so that it isn't sitting on a vent?
I think getting flow from outside the cabinet is probably the best bet. I have a setup that is kind of similar. I have cabinets above a fireplace mantel. There are double doors. The TV area bumps outside the wall of the house so the cabinet doors are flush with the wall. The TV is on the bottom and the components are on a shelf on top.

I have some heavy duty full extension shelf roller guides that let me put the components on the shelf out in the room, connect the cables all up, then push the whole thing back into the cabinet.

Would you need a shelf for the bottom to keep them off the ground? The component legs might be tall enough to clear any kind of grill or cover you have. The cover could be counter sunk into the wood too depending on your cabinet construction. Nice mounting systems are cool, but you could probably find some aftermarket shelves suitable to lift up a couple of components too.
 

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The legs on the reciever are less than a centimeter tall, unfortunately, but I have seriously been thinking of some rackmounting system, or at least something that has cable management. the first site I found had some decent looking rack mounts, and something I thought was decent looking.

http://www.smarthome.com/874230.html

it seems very simlar to what you were talking about, but it might be slightly overkill, and might also kill the idea of the vent in the floor, unless we have it to the side.

just an fyi, dimensions of the cabinet are about 29 inches height, and 22 inches depth

so obviously, this solution wouldn't quiet fit, but something like that. Also, if i found a system like that about 24 inches tall or so, I could still pop a laptop cooler on.

Gosh, I wish we had just made a television closet like at my cabin =(. its amazing how just making a 3x3 closet can make these things so amazingly easier...

Found a vendor of a 23" tall unit, http://cableorganizer.com/home-theater-system/SRSR-rotating-sliding-rail-system.htm#PRICE

One downside of this of course is the $600 price tag.

Maybe the nice and cheap $200 for just a basic rotating rackunit would be better...
 

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Jomanscool2 said:
The legs on the reciever are less than a centimeter tall, unfortunately, but I have seriously been thinking of some rackmounting system, or at least something that has cable management. the first site I found had some decent looking rack mounts, and something I thought was decent looking.

http://www.smarthome.com/874230.html

it seems very simlar to what you were talking about, but it might be slightly overkill, and might also kill the idea of the vent in the floor, unless we have it to the side.

just an fyi, dimensions of the cabinet are about 29 inches height, and 22 inches depth

so obviously, this solution wouldn't quiet fit, but something like that. Also, if i found a system like that about 24 inches tall or so, I could still pop a laptop cooler on.

Gosh, I wish we had just made a television closet like at my cabin =(. its amazing how just making a 3x3 closet can make these things so amazingly easier...

Found a vendor of a 23" tall unit, http://cableorganizer.com/home-theater-system/SRSR-rotating-sliding-rail-system.htm#PRICE

One downside of this of course is the $600 price tag.

Maybe the nice and cheap $200 for just a basic rotating rackunit would be better...
I have one of the smarthome racks, at 7 feet tall. Love it. Everything is completely open, slotted shelves, very good air flow (and I still use a fan).

Temp is 105 +/- 2 deg
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
So this is unofficial but good guideline.

Normal HR20-700 is 120F-131F. Mine averages about 127/129...no extra fans.
I'm not sure what the temp reading is actually measuring in the box but it couldn't be ambient or the box would be on fire and the components would be well out of range. So, it is either CPU or HDD. I'm guessing HDD because this is the #1 failure mechanism in all industries.....example POS & Kiosks, etc. Many of the HDD manufacturers are dealing with these companies (eg. IBM, NCR, etc.) with high temp drives. Wanna know what they consider high temp ?.....only 60C operational. So, considering this is a settop box and drive is 300GB SATA I'm guessing 55C typical HDD spec. So translated in Farenheit this means if 131F. 60C is 140F.

So, what does this mean ?.....don't know because nobody has confirmed any of it but my recommendation would be if you are 131F or below no worries. A a coolpad that extracts heat and brings down to lower temp is always good....less stress on HDD. However, 131F and below is fine. You can google on coolpad and their ~ $20.....some are AC powered....some USB powered....which HR20 USB port is powered. Also, there are some sights (http://www.cool-components.com/33.html) that have higher end coolers with inline shutoff switches based on a thermometer. I've never tried but with these starting up at 70F I'm not sure how well they would work. Personally, I'd like to see D* turn off the USB port power on standby mode....this would be nice turn the USB powered coolpad off.....hope they are listening.

So, 131F-140F is kinda Orange warning area....basically you are operating at top level range of HDD. Above 140F you probably are going to have real issues. I assume from other posts the HR20 shuts down by having a internal temperature thermistor however if the box is running at these temps consistantly it is either a box issue of your enclosure.

Anyway, two cents for what it is worth. I check temp when I'm recording, when playback, when Live TV, etc. to get an idea of modes of operation effect. I'm sure all know but go into MENU>Setup...click setup and go over to first page tab and scroll down for temp reading.
 

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thekochs said:
I'm guessing HDD because this is the #1 failure mechanism in all industries.
I too am guessing HDD because most modern drives have built-in thermometers and, as you said, it is the critical path.
 

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"So, switches based on a thermometer. I've never tried but with these starting up at 70F I'm not sure how well they would work. Personally, I'd like to see D* turn off the USB port power on standby mode....this would be nice turn the USB powered coolpad off.....hope they are listening."

Thanks for the informative post...but I hope they are NOT listening.

I'm not using a USB fan--mine is a lot bigger, sucking air out the top--but the HR20 runs the hard drive, and generates heat, even in standby.

If someone were using a coolpad on top of the HR20, it had better stay on at all times, or it'll trap that a lot of that heat in the HR20.

Check the temp of your HR20 when you come out of standby and you'll probably find it is as warm as when it has been on for a while. If the fan is needed at all, it is needed anytime the HR20 is plugged in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
paulman182 said:
"So, switches based on a thermometer. I've never tried but with these starting up at 70F I'm not sure how well they would work. Personally, I'd like to see D* turn off the USB port power on standby mode....this would be nice turn the USB powered coolpad off.....hope they are listening."

Thanks for the informative post...but I hope they are NOT listening.

I'm not using a USB fan--mine is a lot bigger, sucking air out the top--but the HR20 runs the hard drive, and generates heat, even in standby.

If someone were using a coolpad on top of the HR20, it had better stay on at all times, or it'll trap that a lot of that heat in the HR20.

Check the temp of your HR20 when you come out of standby and you'll probably find it is as warm as when it has been on for a while. If the fan is needed at all, it is needed anytime the HR20 is plugged in.
Good point !!!!! Scratch that request D*. Guess Standby isn't a power state like in a laptop...huh ? :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
harsh said:
I too am guessing HDD because most modern drives have built-in thermometers and, as you said, it is the critical path.
They do......it's a part of the SMART functionanlity in a drive. There is a device called a Thermistor that measues temp and thru the SMART interface (which monitors much more than temp...example bad writes/reads, etc.) tells the system there is a threshold violation. It's up to the firmware/system to decide what to do at that point. CPUS like Intel Px, AMD, etc. have these on-board and they cycle back clock rate and/or shutdown.
 

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Earl,

After hearing about some HR20s failing due to heat issues, I am interested in your thoughts about this. Perhaps there should be a recommendation to use a laptop cooler in all enclosed or semi-enclosed situations. I have mine in a vented closet so I am using one. For $30 or so, it seems like cheap insurance.

I'm also moving over from the UTV world, where it was pretty much standard practice to use a fan or cooler of some sort to keep them going.
By the way, with no respect to Bill, that's one great DVR. The HR20 is getting close with the new and improved slip. I think we owe CNET for this one as they noted it in their review.

Also, if we go the ESATA route, can we disconnect the internal HD to help the heat issue?

Thanks for all that you do.
 
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