HR20 is in beta testing

9942 Views 158 Replies 34 Participants Last post by Wolffpack, Dec 1, 2006

Steve Rhodes

Discussion Starter · Nov 28, 2006

I've worked in the software industry all of my life.

The HR20 is currently in beta testing. Yes, I know that many of you have paid good money for it, but anything that fails this often is still a beta test unit.

I have the very reasonable expectation that no more than 1 or 2 programs a year at most will fail to record properly. This is what my TiVo unit has done for a long time now.

I am hearing on this forum of constant missed program, poor quality recordings, freezes, etc. For something in beta test, this is to be expected. And, for those of you who love trying the latest gadgets more than watching television programs, especially series, which until like movies, provide only one opportunity for recording, then being part of this beta test effort should be fun for you.

For me, I'm waiting until the beta test is over. I don't want to miss an episode of Lost or any other of my continuing series because I am using a beta test unit to record my programs.

In the meantime, please help D* shake all of those bugs out so that the HR20 can get out of beta testing into a production quality build.

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1 - 20 of 159 Posts

nFavor

· #2 · Nov 28, 2006

I think beta test is being used rather loosly. I'm sure people will say that it's still in beta because it doesn't have dual live buffers, feature x, y, z, etc.

My unit is fairly reliable. Not quite as reliable as your standard but still my unit is doing very well. Overall, I'm happy with the device and I feel it's a little hash to say it's in beta.

It's obvious there is quite a demand for the unit since many installers have to cancel appointments due to lack of HR20's. My installer mentioned that the waiting list was over 200 long.

Halsey101

· #3 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
I've worked in the software industry all of my life.

The HR20 is currently in beta testing. Yes, I know that many of you have paid good money for it, but anything that fails this often is still a beta test unit.

I have the very reasonable expectation that no more than 1 or 2 programs a year at most will fail to record properly. This is what my TiVo unit has done for a long time now.

I am hearing on this forum of constant missed program, poor quality recordings, freezes, etc. For something in beta test, this is to be expected. And, for those of you who love trying the latest gadgets more than watching television programs, especially series, which until like movies, provide only one opportunity for recording, then being part of this beta test effort should be fun for you.

For me, I'm waiting until the beta test is over. I don't want to miss an episode of Lost or any other of my continuing series because I am using a beta test unit to record my programs.

In the meantime, please help D* shake all of those bugs out so that the HR20 can get out of beta testing into a production quality build.

I dont have a TIVO, so I had to get the HR20.. My HR20 is working very well.. The problems I have encountered are not major problems and most of them have been resolved.. Besides, I only paid $19.95 to get my HR20 and the 5LNB Dish installed, so I would be and idiot not to take advantage of that offer...

islesfan

· #4 · Nov 28, 2006

nFavor said:
I think beta test is being used rather loosly. I'm sure people will say that it's still in beta because it doesn't have dual live buffers, feature x, y, z, etc.

My unit is fairly reliable. Not quite as reliable as your standard but still my unit is doing very well. Overall, I'm happy with the device and I feel it's a little hash to say it's in beta.

Basically, a DVR does one thing. It records TV so you can watch it later. Features are a completely different issue. The purpose for a DVR is so that you can set it and forget it. That's how they sell them. Otherwise, people would just use a VCR (OK, so that doesn't work with HD, but that's irrelevant to the issue at hand). If you have to babysit the ToDo list every day to see if your shows will actually record, or if they do record, you cannot watch them due to the various unwatchable bugs, it is not yet a functioning DVR. Pretty simple. Enter "Heroes" NBC, and every Monday night it records it, and every Tuesday night, you watch it. Bam, DVR! Enter Heroes NBC, check the ToTo list, see its still there, reset the unit, see its still there, check Saturday, oops gone now, manually re-set the recording, check on Sunday, hey still there, sit by the unit on Monday night as 9:00 rolls around, check that the light goes on, go to bed, turn on in the morning, Heroes is listed in Playlist, cheer in surprise, go to work, come home, try to watch Heroes, get message "do you want to delete?" reset unit, Heroes gone from Playlist, go to backup TiVo, watch Heroes in SD, hope for better next week, IS NOT A DVR!!!!!!

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sigma1914

· #5 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
I've worked in the software industry all of my life.

The HR20 is currently in beta testing. Yes, I know that many of you have paid good money for it, but anything that fails this often is still a beta test unit.

I have the very reasonable expectation that no more than 1 or 2 programs a year at most will fail to record properly. This is what my TiVo unit has done for a long time now.

I am hearing on this forum of constant missed program, poor quality recordings, freezes, etc. For something in beta test, this is to be expected. And, for those of you who love trying the latest gadgets more than watching television programs, especially series, which until like movies, provide only one opportunity for recording, then being part of this beta test effort should be fun for you.

For me, I'm waiting until the beta test is over. I don't want to miss an episode of Lost or any other of my continuing series because I am using a beta test unit to record my programs.

In the meantime, please help D* shake all of those bugs out so that the HR20 can get out of beta testing into a production quality build.

I guess I was beta testing the 6 Tivos I had that 4 of were deffective...missed recordings, freezes, wouldn't boot up. Oh wait, many of you Tivo people think Tivo's are 100%. Also, the all mighty Tivo S3 is in beta testing too, as noted by the hundreds of posts of trouble on their site.

Tom Robertson

· #6 · Nov 28, 2006

nFavor said:
I think beta test is being used rather loosly. I'm sure people will say that it's still in beta because it doesn't have dual live buffers, feature x, y, z, etc.

My unit is fairly reliable. Not quite as reliable as your standard but still my unit is doing very well. Overall, I'm happy with the device and I feel it's a little hash to say it's in beta.

It's obvious there is quite a demand for the unit since many installers have to cancel appointments due to lack of HR20's. My installer mentioned that the waiting list was over 200 long.

Apparently we will have to agree to disagree. Given the types of problems reported here and experienced by myself, I have to say we are beta testers at best. My first VCR never locked up over 10 years of very heavy use. None of my TVs have locked up. I had one car lockup from a software problem, but that was also a bad sensor reporting to the CPU.

Lockups this common, affecting so many people, for a consumer electronic device is extremely bad form. I don't care how new the device is. I expect clocks, vcrs, tvs, appliances, and other consumer electronic stuff to work with high reliability.

And it must cost D* dearly to have stability this low. All the extra calls to CSRs, worries that a software upgrade to the HR20 could make a remote control stop working with the TV, confusion, and FUD start to abound. Their credibility will therefore suffer causing another round of costs: wall street will notice, investors will be thinking twice about buying D*, etc.

Yes, I am painting a very negative picture of how this could go, but I have seen the effects on the reported calls to CSRs. I also know that as a provider or manufacturer you never want to give your customers or your investors any extra reasons to think about looking at the competitor.

To balance this, I think the product will stabilize and I hope it will be soon. There are some very good features. Now its a matter of execution.

Cheers,
Tom

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Steve Rhodes

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 28, 2006

nFavor said:
I think beta test is being used rather loosly. I'm sure people will say that it's still in beta because it doesn't have dual live buffers, feature x, y, z, etc.

My unit is fairly reliable. Not quite as reliable as your standard but still my unit is doing very well. Overall, I'm happy with the device and I feel it's a little hash to say it's in beta.

It's obvious there is quite a demand for the unit since many installers have to cancel appointments due to lack of HR20's. My installer mentioned that the waiting list was over 200 long.

I am very happy that the HR20 is in high demand since that means the beta testing will finish sooner.

Although I think having a real 30-second skip (not a slip) is a must-have feature, my main complaints aren't about the feature set at all but about the stability.

I expect to lose no more than 1 or maybe 2 programs a year -- we have 70 season passes currently -- due to recorder problems. It's clear from reading this forum than the HR20 isn't even close to what I'd consider a production unit and that most people are experience a failure rate much higher than 1 or 2 failed recordings a year.

Tom Robertson

· #8 · Nov 28, 2006

sigma1914 said:
I guess I was beta testing the 6 Tivos I had that 4 of were deffective...missed recordings, freezes, wouldn't boot up. Oh wait, many of you Tivo people think Tivo's are 100%. Also, the all mighty Tivo S3 is in beta testing too, as noted by the hundreds of posts of trouble on their site.

Yes, I would say you were beta testing your Tivos. And if the S3 is behaving as badly as the HR20, I would call that beta testing too.

islesfan said it very well:

islesfan said:
Basically, a DVR does one thing. It records TV so you can watch it later. Features are a completely different issue. The purpose for a DVR is so that you can set it and forget it. That's how they sell them. Otherwise, people would just use a VCR (OK, so that doesn't work with HD, but that's irrelevant to the issue at hand). If you have to babysit the ToDo list every day to see if your shows will actually record, or if they do record, you cannot watch them due to the various unwatchable bugs, it is not yet a functioning DVR. Pretty simple. Enter "Heroes" NBC, and every Monday night it records it, and every Tuesday night, you watch it. Bam, DVR! Enter Heroes NBC, check the ToTo list, see its still there, reset the unit, see its still there, check Saturday, oops gone now, manually re-set the recording, check on Sunday, hey still there, sit by the unit on Monday night as 9:00 rolls around, check that the light goes on, go to bed, turn on in the morning, Heroes is listed in Playlist, cheer in surprise, go to work, come home, try to watch Heroes, get message "do you want to delete?" reset unit, Heroes gone from Playlist, go to backup TiVo, watch Heroes in SD, hope for better next week, IS NOT A DVR!!!!!!

Cheers,
Tom

Earl Bonovich

· #9 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
Although I think having a real 30-second skip (not a slip) is a must-have feature, my main complaints aren't about the feature set at all but about the stability.

Then I'll burst the bubble... you are probably NEVER going to see a SKIP shorter then the Skip to Tick, feature in any of the DirecTV DVR+ series of DVRs.

Steve Rhodes

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 28, 2006

Earl Bonovich said:
Then I'll burst the bubble... you are probably NEVER going to see a SKIP shorter then the Skip to Tick, feature in any of the DirecTV DVR+ series of DVRs.

Call me confused. I just want to quickly skip past commercials, as I do now on my TiVo. I don't care how fast I skip to the tick. That's not what I want to do very often.

Earl Bonovich

· #11 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
Call me confused. I just want to quickly skip past commercials, as I do now on my TiVo. I don't care how fast I skip to the tick. That's not what I want to do very often.

I know... but I am saying... you are NEVER going to see a 30s SKIP, or 60s SKIP, or anything that jumps from one point to another, for a time frame that will allow you to jump over a commercial brake with one or two pushes of a button.

The current SLIP is as about as fast as it is going to get.

There is a "reason" why TiVo does not have that feature listed as an official feature of the unit, nor is it enabled by default.

sigma1914

· #12 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
Call me confused. I just want to quickly skip past commercials, as I do now on my TiVo. I don't care how fast I skip to the tick. That's not what I want to do very often.

Is 10 seconds too long? That's about all it takes.

Steve Rhodes

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 28, 2006

sigma1914 said:
Is 10 seconds too long? That's about all it takes.

Yes it most certainly IS too long! I can easily do it 2 seconds with TiVo. 10 seconds is not only 5 times longer, it makes the skipping much less seemless.

Still, if the only problem was that the HR20 didn't have a real skip feature, that would not make a beta test unit, which is what this thread is about.

Be unable to depend on my recorder not to miss or mess up recordings of my shows is my main concern.

Meklos

· #14 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
Call me confused. I just want to quickly skip past commercials, as I do now on my TiVo. I don't care how fast I skip to the tick. That's not what I want to do very often.

Why do you think advertisers are building 'DVR-enabled' ads, which feature static or highly repetitive graphic content? So that even if you 'slip' over it, the ad will still hit you.

Halsey101

· #15 · Nov 28, 2006

To be very honest, I think A LOT of the problems with the HR20 is that poeple just dont know how they operate.... I have had the 20 for a little over 2 months now, and when I first got it, I thought it was junk.... But, now that I understand how it works, and my HR20 does not miss a beat as far as recordings... Like I said before, the other issues that I have, are minor...

Tom Robertson

· #16 · Nov 28, 2006

Halsey101 said:
To be very honest, I think A LOT of the problems with the HR20 is that poeple just dont know how they operate.... I have had the 20 for a little over 2 months now, and when I first got it, I thought it was junk.... But, now that I understand how it works, and my HR20 does not miss a beat as far as recordings... Like I said before, the other issues that I have, are minor...

Even if the majority of the initial problems reported to D* are educational in nature (user error), we who have a clue are still beta testers. There are common problems, well and articulately described on these forums, that are of a nature as to strongly suggest that the unit was not well baked before release. (Boy, did I soften that statement...)

For instance, while I've had the occasional time that I've scratched my head over something until I remembered how the HR20 works, that doesn't explain multiple lockups. (In an environment where my Tivos are currently working fine.) Nor does it explain why recordings are only a minute long, when the same prioritizer list works fine after a reboot. Or why recordings seem to be successful, only to be blank or otherwise unwatchable.

Cheers,
Tom

Halsey101

· #17 · Nov 28, 2006

tibber said:
Even if the majority of the initial problems reported to D* are educational in nature (user error), we who have a clue are still beta testers. There are common problems, well and articulately described on these forums, that are of a nature as to strongly suggest that the unit was not well baked before release. (Boy, did I soften that statement...)

For instance, while I've had the occasional time that I've scratched my head over something until I remembered how the HR20 works, that doesn't explain multiple lockups. (In an environment where my Tivos are currently working fine.) Nor does it explain why recordings are only a minute long, when the same prioritizer list works fine after a reboot. Or why recordings seem to be successful, only to be blank or otherwise unwatchable.

Cheers,
Tom

I am SICK of hearing about TIVO.... You have to remember, TIVO has been around for a long time, and the HR20 hasnt... If you have "multiple" lock-ups, maybe you need a new receiver..

I just wish I would hear the same complaining about everytime FORD has a "recall" on their vehicles.... Thats why I buy Toyotas'.... When a "new" product comes out, I dont care what it is, there are going to be problems.. The question is,,,, how fast do they get them fixed...

Steve Rhodes

Discussion Starter · #18 · Nov 28, 2006

tibber said:
Even if the majority of the initial problems reported to D* are educational in nature (user error), we who have a clue are still beta testers. There are common problems, well and articulately described on these forums, that are of a nature as to strongly suggest that the unit was not well baked before release. (Boy, did I soften that statement...)

For instance, while I've had the occasional time that I've scratched my head over something until I remembered how the HR20 works, that doesn't explain multiple lockups. (In an environment where my Tivos are currently working fine.) Nor does it explain why recordings are only a minute long, when the same prioritizer list works fine after a reboot. Or why recordings seem to be successful, only to be blank or otherwise unwatchable.

Cheers,
Tom

Between my dad's household and mine, we've got 4 heavily used TiVo units.

Number of unwatchable recordings during the last 12 months: 0

Number of recordings that failed to record during the last 12 months: 0

Number of lockups during the last 12 months: 0

The figures are probably unchanged if I said 24 months, but memory isn't that good.

Halsey101

· #19 · Nov 28, 2006

Steve Rhodes said:
Between my dad's household and mine, we've got 4 heavily used TiVo units.

Number of unwatchable recordings during the last 12 months: 0

Number of recordings that failed to record during the last 12 months: 0

Number of lockups during the last 12 months: 0

The figures are probably unchanged if I said 24 months, but memory isn't that good.

Its a good thing you dont work for NASA... Being "perfect" is tough..

Quattro

· #20 · Nov 28, 2006

Remember you're usually only going to hear from people with problems. I've had my HR20 for a month. No complaints at all.

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