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Cool Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good day all.

I searched the forums and could not find this so I thought I woud post.

I recently had the HR20 installed. All is well except....

NBC hd (not ota) is very strange. All other HD channels look great. NBC just seems to look almost highlight reel-ish. Maybe like 59 fps vs standard 60.. especially during an HD football game.

I reall dont know how to describe it.

I guess my question is does anyone else see the difference?

This was not a concern on my older hughes HD dtv receiver (but the NBC hd feed was OTA), so I put this thread in this forum.

Again, while there is some image quality loss as compared to OTA, the NBC hd feed seems almost choppy.

I played with the resolutions but no change.

I think I remember NBC using a different HD format or something a few years ago (480p vs 1080i) but Im probably mistaken.

Thanks
 

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Reifel Tower said:
Good day all.

I searched the forums and could not find this so I thought I woud post.

I recently had the HR20 installed. All is well except....

NBC hd (not ota) is very strange. All other HD channels look great. NBC just seems to look almost highlight reel-ish. Maybe like 59 fps vs standard 60.. especially during an HD football game.

I reall dont know how to describe it.

I guess my question is does anyone else see the difference?

This was not a concern on my older hughes HD dtv receiver (but the NBC hd feed was OTA), so I put this thread in this forum.

Again, while there is some image quality loss as compared to OTA, the NBC hd feed seems almost choppy.

I played with the resolutions but no change.

I think I remember NBC using a different HD format or something a few years ago (480p vs 1080i) but Im probably mistaken.

Thanks
Many HD-Locals are having startup problems. It may be a while before they get up to speed. Unless you are talking about FF/RW problems (a known issue with this release of the firmware), the problem is with the source, and probably not the HR20 at this point. It's a pretty messy issue at this point, but I wouldn't be looking for it to be completely cured by anything done with the HR20.

Getting the MPEG-4 stuff to work is, shall we say, "problematic". Some of it HR20, but a bunch of it on the source side of things.
 

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mstenbrg said:
My NBC HD is worse than the others also. It looks like light static on top of the picture, small white dots. This is very noticable in dark scenes.
I've been having the same type of problem here in Chicago. The issue comes and goes so it's obviously an encoding problem and not a HR20 issue.

My biggest beef is with the sound. They can never seem to get the Dolby Digital right. The music track is always so quiet. It's especially weird when the scene is in a bar. Last week on Six Degrees the characters were singing karioke and there wasn't any music.
 

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Legend
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I have also noticed this problem especially with football games. Someone described it as the beach scene of Saving Private Ryan. It is very annoying and makes it tough to watch. I noticed something was weird a couple of weeks ago, then my wife made a comment about it during one game we were watching to confirm that I'm not going crazy.

The theory about the source being the issue doesn't hold water because it does not do it on my cable HD DVR. I would be interested to see if anyone has experienced the problem with any of the other receivers. It is a live issue so it shouldn't just affect DVRs.
 

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drmorley said:
I've been having the same type of problem here in Chicago. The issue comes and goes so it's obviously an encoding problem and not a HR20 issue.

My biggest beef is with the sound. They can never seem to get the Dolby Digital right. The music track is always so quiet. It's especially weird when the scene is in a bar. Last week on Six Degrees the characters were singing karioke and there wasn't any music.
I should have mentioned sound as well...DD 5.1 can be a real adventure OTA, again all depending on your station engineering staff. Levels are all over the map, presence and absence of the center channel, DD 5.x not present at all.

Some stations have been very good, others have been all over the map. Of course, when switching formats for commercials, the sound format goes away from DD as well.

This is why I would be careful about assuming that anything that happens with the HR20 and MPEG-4/HD Locals can be assigned to the HR20 with certainty. Other than "known issues published with a software release" or several users in the same area being able to isolate something to the HR20, the users of MPEG-4/HD-Locals have their hands full as alpha testers (and NOT just at the D* end of things) at this point. You have my sympathy.

My box has been very, very good for the 3 weeks I've had it. Very few, and quite minor problems...I credit most of that to not having MPEG-4/HD Locals, thank God!
 

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Legend
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And the Sunday Night Football broadcasts look chalky - San Antonio's WOAI-TV/DT on the HR20. The video looks GREAT over the air, though. So the video issue is clearly an MPEG-4 thing. OTA audio is still echoed.
 

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Mentor
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I don't think you'd be able to notice the difference between 59 and 60 fps. It's hard to tell the diff between 30 and 60 for some people. (Of course I want my computer games at 120fps at all times.)

That being said, by NBC HD looks about the same as ABC HD. Fox looks the best (as usual) and CBS is the worst, by far.
 

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AllStar
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Reifel Tower said:
Good day all.
NBC hd (not ota) is very strange. All other HD channels look great. NBC just seems to look almost highlight reel-ish. Maybe like 59 fps vs standard 60.. especially during an HD football game.

I think I remember NBC using a different HD format or something a few years ago (480p vs 1080i) but Im probably mistaken.

Thanks
The problem you are seeing is due to encoding problems. When encoding an interlaced broadcast (1080i is interlaced just like the old time 480i is interlaced), the encoder must get the field order correct. On a Interlaced signal, a TV picture "frame" is comprised of two pictures (or fields).
So if the broadcaster sends the fields in the following order:
field 1-2 = frame 1, field 3-4 = frame 2, field 5-6 = frame 3, field 7-8 = frame 4, the TV should combine fields 1 and 2 to make the first frame, then fields 3 and 4 for the next frame (this is how 480i and 1080i works). The trick here is that sometimes field 1 is the TOP field and other times field 2 is the TOP field. If the broadcast has field 2 as the top field and the encoder uses field 1 as the top field,
voila you now have the effect you are observing.
MPEG2 encoders have had a lot of time to automatically get this right so you do not see this effect that often any more. I do recall seeing it on Discover HD in the early days of HD on D*.
720p broadcasts do not have this problem since there are no fields to combine to make a complete frame. Complete frames are transmitted.
 

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Legend
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Deevan said:
I don't think you'd be able to notice the difference between 59 and 60 fps. It's hard to tell the diff between 30 and 60 for some people. (Of course I want my computer games at 120fps at all times.) That being said, by NBC HD looks about the same as ABC HD. Fox looks the best (as usual) and CBS is the worst, by far.
I think his point was that it is just a little off, just enough to be annoying and something that you may not notice if you're not looking closely. But once you notice it, it's REALLY annoying. Kinda like that sound that you don't notice until someone points it out, then it drives you crazy.:new_Eyecr

Agree completely, CBS (when they actually show a game in HD) is horrible. Fox is definitely the best.
 

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Same here in Philadelphia with MPEG4 NBC feed. Looks almost glossy and slick, with a very, very miniscule stutter (you can see the difference if you watch my local NBC feed and then go over to the neighbor's feed on his HR210 from NYC. Totally different). I even see it on CBS, with Letterman. Sure that's the locals issue, not HR20. But what the hell do I know. The MPEG2 channels are fine.
 
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