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· Godfather
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Reading thru the HR20 threads the last few days got me thinking...
With some folks theories on why the HR20 can be unstable/unreliable at times, and with the latest EB software not seeming to really "fix" any of the most annoying bugs yet. I'm wondering if and when OTA is activated on the HR20, are we just asking for even more issues - unfortunately I think we are. It's just that much more "stuff" for the HR20 to process and deal with, 2 more tuners, guide info for the OTA channels etc.
I know those that don't have MPEG4 locals and can get good OTA reception are dying for the OTA to be activated, but I just can't make myself get too excited about this feature - yet. If the latest software update had made some major steps forward with things like the partial bug, BSOD, and missed recordings maybe things would be looking a little brighter.
I'm not bashing the HR20 - my 2 have been behaving pretty well lately - but I just see bad things coming if OTA is activated, hopefully I'm dead wrong. IMHO I think they should delay the OTA until they can eliminate some of these still existing recording bugs.
Thoughts ?
 

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jbstix said:
Reading thru the HR20 threads the last few days got me thinking...
With some folks theories on why the HR20 can be unstable/unreliable at times, and with the latest EB software not seeming to really "fix" any of the most annoying bugs yet. I'm wondering if and when OTA is activated on the HR20, are we just asking for even more issues - unfortunately I think we are. It's just that much more "stuff" for the HR20 to process and deal with, 2 more tuners, guide info for the OTA channels etc.
I know those that don't have MPEG4 locals and can get good OTA reception are dying for the OTA to be activated, but I just can't make myself get too excited about this feature - yet. If the latest software update had made some major steps forward with things like the partial bug, BSOD, and missed recordings maybe things would be looking a little brighter.
I'm not bashing the HR20 - my 2 have been behaving pretty well lately - but I just see bad things coming if OTA is activated, hopefully I'm dead wrong. IMHO I think they should delay the OTA until they can eliminate some of these still existing recording bugs.
Thoughts ?
If you go into a computer bios and disable functions, the result is bugs and crashes, and other problems. Of course when you re-enable the disabled feature, the problems go away. The HR20 is like a mini computer. It has the motherboard, bios, OS, and Hard drive. They have disabled many features so far including OTA in the bios, so I feel once they enable OTA then things will clear up.

Many people disagree with this concept and feel enabling OTA will cause more issues, but I feel that it will improve reliability to have the unit fully active and powered as it's supposed to be.
 

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cybrsurfer said:
They have disabled many features so far including OTA in the bios, so I feel once they enable OTA then things will clear up.

Many people disagree with this concept and feel enabling OTA will cause more issues, but I feel that it will improve reliability to have the unit fully active and powered as it's supposed to be.
How do you know that? How do you know it or any other feature is disabled in BIOS? It is a closed system. How do you know it was not just disabled in the software?
 

· Godfather
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
cybrsurfer said:
If you go into a computer bios and disable functions, the result is bugs and crashes, and other problems. Of course when you re-enable the disabled feature, the problems go away. The HR20 is like a mini computer. It has the motherboard, bios, OS, and Hard drive. They have disabled many features so far including OTA in the bios, so I feel once they enable OTA then things will clear up.

Many people disagree with this concept and feel enabling OTA will cause more issues, but I feel that it will improve reliability to have the unit fully active and powered as it's supposed to be.
Interesting take - I just don't think it's quite that easy. You def. have an undying faith in the HR20. You just want OTA to be enabled so you can see if the infamous 3 recording at once, can actual happen - wink, wink. (but that's been discussed plenty) :) we won't go there again...
I'd rather have a stable rock solid reliable DVR, before adding more features - and OTA is a biggy. As always all opinions are welcome
 

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No one wants OTA more than I do (I'm anticipating MPEG-4 with the same dread as a root canal....it's supposed to be turned on before year's end in Iowa). However, D* needs to get the stability of this box well established before adding anything more. The number of people noting that EB has not fixed much is not encouraging. I was chomping at the bit last week for it...now...I'm not sure I care. I can wait.

(And I'm not having any real problems with my HR20, and haven't in the 6 weeks I've had it) I like it a lot. It sure seems "fragile" for a significant minority of users.
 

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btmoore said:
How do you know that? How do you know it or any other feature is disabled in BIOS? It is a closed system. How do you know it was not just disabled in the software?
It's hard to say without a schematic, but it was simply posed as a possibility. It's been my experience with PC's that many problems have arisen when disabling features.

I think however you have a valid point too.
 

· Legend
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cybrsurfer said:
If you go into a computer bios and disable functions, the result is bugs and crashes, and other problems. Of course when you re-enable the disabled feature, the problems go away. The HR20 is like a mini computer. It has the motherboard, bios, OS, and Hard drive. They have disabled many features so far including OTA in the bios, so I feel once they enable OTA then things will clear up.

Many people disagree with this concept and feel enabling OTA will cause more issues, but I feel that it will improve reliability to have the unit fully active and powered as it's supposed to be.
Sorry but that is just wrong. You can disable many items in your BIOS without affecting reliability at all.
 

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sthor said:
Sorry but that is just wrong. You can disable many items in your BIOS without affecting reliability at all.
Totally depends on the PC/Computer

I have had PC/Servers in the past, if you disable things on the hardware level (via jumpers or BIOS), we had issues.

If you disabled them via Software, no problems.
 

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sthor said:
Sorry but that is just wrong. You can disable many items in your BIOS without affecting reliability at all.
Many PC models, even new models have issues when you disable features or change things in the BIOS. Even with the latest BIOS.
 

· Godfather
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Cybr- I think this is at least the second time you have tried that theory.:rolleyes: Not that making any change in the BIOS is potentially asking for trouble in a WORKING machine, but as I said the last time this came up, it is usually the best way to diagnose problems; or more to the point test a particular function without anything else getting in the way. Turn off and remove any possible offending software or hardware and then start enabling and adding back to diagnose problems.

I don’t think this is asking for problems, my unit (still not EB) has been working about 98% from the day it was installed. As far as the delay, how much more of a delay are you asking for. I think this is exactly why we don;t have OTA thus far. Work out the bugs in the other programming without the distraction of the OTA programming.
 

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jbstix said:
I know those that don't have MPEG4 locals and can get good OTA reception are dying for the OTA to be activated, but I just can't make myself get too excited about this feature - yet. If the latest software update had made some major steps forward with things like the partial bug, BSOD, and missed recordings maybe things would be looking a little brighter.
I completely agree. This is a satellite DVR first and foremost. The satellite part works for the most part. Now get the DVR part working reliably.
 

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dervari said:
I completely agree. This is a satellite DVR first and foremost. The satellite part works for the most part. Now get the DVR part working reliably.
I agree with the conclusion (get the DVR section to reliably work first), but completely disagree with the front end assumption (satellite DVR first and foremost). I'll do MORE recording with the HR20 from OTA than I ever will with Sat. The PQ itself dictates that. The HR20 was designed to have BOTH OTA and Sat...if it hadn't been, I would never have purchased it. So for me, it is NOT "first and foremost a Sat DVR.

Further, why would we expect that OTA recording would work any more reliably than the currently erratic Sat recording? It makes a certain kind of sense to wait to deploy OTA (even though I want it really, really badly), until recording works better.

Here's the real problem: it's a DVR that isn't DVR'ing reliably yet. Implementing OTA could make it worse, better, or have no effect at all. Any statements to the contrary are just more speculation and conjecture.

Until I'm presented with evidence (not opinion or speculation) to the contrary, I'll assume D* has good reasons for the delay in OTA. I don't like it...but that's just too bad, I'll have to get over it, or dump the HR20 and get something else (not going to happen).
 

· Godfather
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
hasan said:
I agree with the conclusion (get the DVR section to reliably work first), but completely disagree with the front end assumption (satellite DVR first and foremost). I'll do MORE recording with the HR20 from OTA than I ever will with Sat. The PQ itself dictates that. The HR20 was designed to have BOTH OTA and Sat...if it hadn't been, I would never have purchased it. So for me, it is NOT "first and foremost a Sat DVR.

Further, why would we expect that OTA recording would work any more reliably than the currently erratic Sat recording? It makes a certain kind of sense to wait to deploy OTA (even though I want it really, really badly), until recording works better.

Here's the real problem: it's a DVR that isn't DVR'ing reliably yet. Implementing OTA could make it worse, better, or have no effect at all. Any statements to the contrary are just more speculation and conjecture.

Until I'm presented with evidence (not opinion or speculation) to the contrary, I'll assume D* has good reasons for the delay in OTA. I don't like it...but that's just too bad, I'll have to get over it, or dump the HR20 and get something else (not going to happen).
I think what you say is very wise, ecspecially since you currently don't have the ability to record your local HD content. OTA is not worth it, no matter how bad anybody wants it, if it's just going to cause more problems for those of us with HD locals; and then possibly cause even more issues for those who's only option is OTA HD content. Just going on the 3 month track record of the HR20, it's just not likely that adding the OTA feature can do anything but cause problems.

It sounds like most people agree somewhat...

We want reliable basic DVR functionality first - then add the other features *once tested and known to work* OTA being at the top of the list.
Just like I don't want the EB update now, I don't want OTA just b/c my machines are "behaving". Fingers remain crossed...
 

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cybrsurfer said:
Many PC models, even new models have issues when you disable features or change things in the BIOS. Even with the latest BIOS.
Again, I repeat, you are simply wrong. You can disable many things in the BIOS without affecting reliabilty on a pc.
 

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sthor said:
Again, I repeat, you are simply wrong. You can disable many things in the BIOS without affecting reliabilty on a pc.
Again... I'll tell you from experience.
That is not 100% true... I have had multiple cases over the years, if I disable something in the BIOS, I have had issues.

I had a mother board, that if i set it LEGACY USB Keyboard/Mouse support.... it actually would not recognize to a KVM.
If I left it turned off, it worked fine.

They are very rare now adays... very rare.
But In the past, they where not that uncommon... In the 486 days, I spent as much time in the BIOS as I did the Autoexec.bat
 

· Godfather
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sthor said:
Again, I repeat, you are simply wrong. You can disable many things in the BIOS without affecting reliabilty on a pc.
You are over generalizing. Often you can disable some extra features like onboard audio on a motherboard without affecting reliability. But, if you disable something that allows installed hardware to function properly and your software expects that function to be enabled, you will get errors left and right. So. To a degree you are correct, but without knowing exactly how the OS, Software, Hardware, and Firmware in the HR20 all work together, you can't say that the disabling of features in Firmware doesn't affect it at all any more than the other guy can say it does. He was just making a reasonable deduction with an analogy. By the way, it makes sense. Although I wouldn't have used a PC BIOS as an example because most settings the typical user can modify will not have an impact on reliability. If the manufacturer disables stuff, it most certainly can, however.
 

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The only potential saving grace for OTA activation is the technology is mature. I have no idea how good D* is at implementing it, the track record is not good, but I have been recording ATSC meg2 for 7 years and I know other have been doing it longer than me.
 

· AllStar
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I'm afraid that if my OTA signal cut out for a second (something that happens occasionally), the box would freeze. This is just my educated guess on what would happen with the HR20 based on what happens now when the satellite signal cuts out.
 

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sthor said:
Again, I repeat, you are simply wrong. You can disable many things in the BIOS without affecting reliabilty on a pc.
While I'm not sure in this particular instance that turning on OTA will have any effect on the overall stability, there is some validity to the argument here. Depending upon the system, and the usage, and a whole load of variables, turning off features in a system BIOS can lead to problems.

He's not suggesting that every time you disable an item in the BIOS you're going to blow up your computer. But it's been known to happen. The place I used to work had like 20 servers and 40 or so terminals throughout the building (don't ask me why the had so many servers for so few terminals... the whole setup was funky). But they had one lady whose sole job was to run around and fix things that users had messed up. Generally it was a software thing, but more than once somebody tried to troubleshoot their own problem and disabled something that the system didn't like and she'd have to go in and fix the problems.

To make a blanket statement that it's simply not possible is off base. While it may be highly uncommon, it's been known to happen on occasion.
 
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