[rutlean]

Shouldn't tuner 1 and 2 be reading the same signal strength for any given channel? If the RF is internally split, it seems like it would. However, mine is sometime way different. Anyone else experience this?

Thanks

 

[Stuart Sweet]

From what I understand, because of the math involved in converting dB gain to percentages, it's completely reasonable for the tuners to be 5-10% different from each other, or for the signal to fluctuate.

Now, if you're saying that one is 25% and one is 75% consistently, that there might be a hardware problem.

 

[mrw]

I have two channels where tuner 2 is half of tuner 1. For example, Tuner 1 reads 80% and Tuner 2 reads 40% on one particular channel.

 

[rutlean]

I have two channels where tuner 2 is half of tuner 1. For example, Tuner 1 reads 80% and Tuner 2 reads 40% on one particular channel.

Same with me.

 

[byron]

is that the initial reading? does it not flatten out after a few seconds?

i've seen that on mine, but after a few seconds the one that is reading low jumps up and they are within 4-5% of each other.

 

[Stuart Sweet]

Are the other channels consistent, and is the problem always with those channels and consistently those channels?

 

[mrw]

same here, consistent.

 

[byron]

hrmm...

 

[Stuart Sweet]

If you're having consistent problems on consistent channels you might have a hardware issue there.

 

[rutlean]

If you're having consistent problems on consistent channels you might have a hardware issue there.

If it was a hardware problem, it seems like tuner 2 would be half of tuner 1 on all of the other channels. Mine only does it on one channel. The rest are all with in 5%. Also, I let it sit there for 10 or 15 seconds to see if it will go up.

I also have one channel at 93-97% that drops out intermittently every 30 or 40 seconds and then comes back. It could be local station problem too though.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[hasan]

same here, consistent.

The tuners are a complicated issue. I've been experimenting with them for hours. First of all, don't believe everything you see...the tuners are really "finicky"...that's the best way I can put it. They show completely different signal readings depending on all sorts of things, including the length of line feeding them.

Some observations to support "finicky"

1. Varying the length of the line (inserting known good sections of varying length), produce dramatically different readings, even between tuners. I was able to get PBS to show a difference of of 40% between tuners by varying nothing more than the length of the line.

2. Varying the amount of signal (with a preamp ... a real, low noise preamp, not a noise generator) can produce the same issues.

3. Varying the amount of signal with a variable attenuator showed similar "tilt" toward one ctuner or the other.

4. Varying the amount of signal with this same attenuator produced large variations of signal strength between channels.

All my stations come from one tower complex, located 27 miles from me, across largely flat terrain (few rolling hills). All are on UHF from channel 16 up through channel 59 (real channel not remapped). My antenna is a medium sized VHF/UHF LP-Yagi on top of a two story house with new RG-6 feedline of about 40'.

Let's just say while the tuners in the HR20 work reasonably well, they have some real "issues" that will need to be worked out. The signal strength meters are not to be relied on. Anything one might do that produces wildly different levels on the two tuners is probably headed in the wrong direction. Anything one can do to get them closer together is probably progress.

It is not a good sign that varying line length in short sections produces wild variations in apparent signal quality.

I have found the following setup to work best for me:

ANT > Main Feed > Preamp > Variable Attenuator > 3 way Splitter >

> HR20
> Samsung HD TV
> Panasonic DVD Recorder/SD Tuner

I have experimented with all possible variations...running the main antenna line directly into the HR20, using or not using the preamp, using or not using the variable attenuator (with various levels of attenuation), changing line lengths in all of the previous combinations.

EVERY CHANGE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THE SIGNAL METERS IN THE HR20 BEHAVED..and I'm not talking just about strength...I'm referring to stability of the meter readings and equalization of signal level of the two tuners.

So, don't try to make too much of readings on the HR20 signal meters (OTA). Seeing good from bad is fairly easy...making smaller discernments is presently not possible, so don't miss the forest for the trees.

Signal Strength, Load Impedance, Line Length, Multi-path...all influence what the meters are saying. At this point it is VERY difficult to arrive at any sane conclusions other than having both tuners read as closely to the same signal (and as strong a signal) as possible is good.

At this point, we are going to have to experiment a bit.

 

[jamieh1]

The signal meter on the HR20 is terrible. It is very sluggish and seems to take a while to catch up when toggling thru the channels.

 

[hdtvfan0001]

The signal meter on the HR20 is terrible. It is very sluggish and seems to take a while to catch up when toggling thru the channels.

That's because its not really a ture "signal meter"...its a meter that displays the recption of the data stream coming over, not the actual strength of the broadcast signal itself. Any brief delay in presenting the values is for the processing of the data stream by the tuner.

 

[rutlean]

The tuners are a complicated issue. I've been experimenting with them for hours. First of all, don't believe everything you see...the tuners are really "finicky"...that's the best way I can put it. They show completely different signal readings depending on all sorts of things, including the length of line feeding them.

Some observations to support "finicky"

1. Varying the length of the line (inserting known good sections of varying length), produce dramatically different readings, even between tuners. I was able to get PBS to show a difference of of 40% between tuners by varying nothing more than the length of the line.

2. Varying the amount of signal (with a preamp ... a real, low noise preamp, not a noise generator) can produce the same issues.

3. Varying the amount of signal with a variable attenuator showed similar "tilt" toward one ctuner or the other.

4. Varying the amount of signal with this same attenuator produced large variations of signal strength between channels.

All my stations come from one tower complex, located 27 miles from me, across largely flat terrain (few rolling hills). All are on UHF from channel 16 up through channel 59 (real channel not remapped). My antenna is a medium sized VHF/UHF LP-Yagi on top of a two story house with new RG-6 feedline of about 40'.

Let's just say while the tuners in the HR20 work reasonably well, they have some real "issues" that will need to be worked out. The signal strength meters are not to be relied on. Anything one might do that produces wildly different levels on the two tuners is probably headed in the wrong direction. Anything one can do to get them closer together is probably progress.

It is not a good sign that varying line length in short sections produces wild variations in apparent signal quality.

I have found the following setup to work best for me:

ANT > Main Feed > Preamp > Variable Attenuator > 3 way Splitter >

> HR20
> Samsung HD TV
> Panasonic DVD Recorder/SD Tuner

I have experimented with all possible variations...running the main antenna line directly into the HR20, using or not using the preamp, using or not using the variable attenuator (with various levels of attenuation), changing line lengths in all of the previous combinations.

EVERY CHANGE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THE SIGNAL METERS IN THE HR20 BEHAVED..and I'm not talking just about strength...I'm referring to stability of the meter readings and equalization of signal level of the two tuners.

So, don't try to make too much of readings on the HR20 signal meters (OTA). Seeing good from bad is fairly easy...making smaller discernments is presently not possible, so don't miss the forest for the trees.

Signal Strength, Load Impedance, Line Length, Multi-path...all influence what the meters are saying. At this point it is VERY difficult to arrive at any sane conclusions other than having both tuners read as closely to the same signal (and as strong a signal) as possible is good.

At this point, we are going to have to experiment a bit.

I've still got to figure out why I have one channel with a really good signal that drops out frequently. I found out last night that it isn't the transmitter, as a friend of mine was watch the same thing and not experiencing any drop outs. I suppose the meter could be off enough such that I am actually not picking up a good signal. I am going to get a compass today and make sure that the yagi is pointed in the right direction.

One test I did last night was to remove the 2 way splitter I am using to send the RF to the HR20 and my FM receiver. When using the spliter, the RF into the HR20 should be 3dB plus insertion loss less than when not using it. With that kind of loss (more than double), it should have been noticable on the meters, but the meters didn't seem to change at all on any of the ota channels. So, I am going to agree with several of you guys....the meters may not be a good indication of anything except that there is a signal present. I guess you'll know you have a good signal when you get channels with no drop outs.

Thanks for all the feedback