[djstough]

Well,

Having sat quietly in the background, listening to the clear minority (who I believe have actual problems), I felt it was time for this post.

Here is what I have:

2 HR20's
2 HR10's
1 R15
2 SD Tivo units

My system is running on all new RG6 (house built 13 months ago), and I have two Zinwell WB68's, giving me 16 ports available to use. One of the HR20's has a diplexed OTA antenna, and the other has a dedicated OTA feed to it.

Other than the fact that the first unit brought by the tech (who showed up on the date and time specified) being dead on SAT2, which he replaced the next morning, I have had no problems.

No lost recordings.
No Black Screens.
I have noticed in my history that there are shows listed as cancelled, but somehow think this is a strange software bug, as all of these items are in the future, and they all still show up as scheduled items, and they record appropriately.

My HR10's are no longer connected as backup, and will probably be posted on Ebay soon!

 

[430970]

Woo-hoo. Someone with no problems on their HR20. Congratulations

Seriously, no one is arguing that there aren't problem free HR20s. What people are saying is that the problems are real and that they happen too often, to too many people and are too severe to be "ignored" or assigned to user error. And while it's commendable DirecTV is trying to fix the problem, it's more telling that nearly 6 months after commercial release, they clearly haven't fixed the major issues for many, many people. There are clearly a non-trivial minority experiencing severe enough problems to make them want to chuck their HR20 out the window. Many of whom are only hanging around because of D*'s draconian contract terms. Despite not being sure if it's "most" customers, if it were an insignificant percentage of the customer base, DirecTV would not be releasing full software upgrades with "stability fixes" 14 times in the last 4 months.

Let's hope the HR20 may yet become reliable enough to warrant defending against people who are mainly Tivo-fan-boys. For right now I'd caution anyone with a "reliable" HR20 to just count their blessings, and hope the next software release doesn't "magically" de-stabilize their previously reliable HR20 as we've started to see now a couple weeks after the last supposedly great release.

Someone put it well in another thread when they said something like: If 90% of people really enjoyed a roller coaster ride, but 10% of the people hated it, I'd want to know why those people hated it. If the 10% were just bored by the ride, the 90% happy customers would positively influence my decision. If, on the other hand, the 10% of the people hated it because they were injured by the ride, the 90% who liked it doesn't matter.

That's how I feel right now about the HR20. Judging by this forum, the commentary around the web and the frequent software releases, this box is not worth taking a chance on - especially because you get "stuck" with a 2-year D* contract with no way out. I really wish it were different, because I'm sure my HR10 will die at some point, and then the HR20 is my only choice for HD DVRs with DirecTV. If it's still as unreliable as it is today, I'll have to leave DirecTV and go Dish or Comcast, neither of which sound really appealing. I care enough about my TV watching, and have lived through enough reliable DVRs, that I'm not willing to take a chance on something like the HR20 (as it exists now)

 

[Howie]

Jeez, for the life of me I can't figure out why some people are so fixated on the problems of a piece of electronic equipment that they don't even own (or lease). Either get the thing or not. If you actually had one your opinions would hold more water.

 

[djstough]

Woo-hoo. Someone with no problems on their HR20. Congratulations

Seriously, no one is arguing that there aren't problem free HR20s. What people are saying is that the problems are real and that they happen too often, to too many people and are too severe to be "ignored" or assigned to user error. And while it's commendable DirecTV is trying to fix the problem, it's more telling that nearly 6 months after commercial release, they clearly haven't fixed the major issues for many, many people. There are clearly a non-trivial minority experiencing severe enough problems to make them want to chuck their HR20 out the window. Many of whom are only hanging around because of D*'s draconian contract terms. Despite not being sure if it's "most" customers, if it were an insignificant percentage of the customer base, DirecTV would not be releasing full software upgrades with "stability fixes" 14 times in the last 4 months.

Let's hope the HR20 may yet become reliable enough to warrant defending against people who are mainly Tivo-fan-boys. For right now I'd caution anyone with a "reliable" HR20 to just count their blessings, and hope the next software release doesn't "magically" de-stabilize their previously reliable HR20 as we've started to see now a couple weeks after the last supposedly great release.

Someone put it well in another thread when they said something like: If 90% of people really enjoyed a roller coaster ride, but 10% of the people hated it, I'd want to know why those people hated it. If the 10% were just bored by the ride, the 90% happy customers would positively influence my decision. If, on the other hand, the 10% of the people hated it because they were injured by the ride, the 90% who liked it doesn't matter.

That's how I feel right now about the HR20. Judging by this forum, the commentary around the web and the frequent software releases, this box is not worth taking a chance on - especially because you get "stuck" with a 2-year D* contract with no way out. I really wish it were different, because I'm sure my HR10 will die at some point, and then the HR20 is my only choice for HD DVRs with DirecTV. If it's still as unreliable as it is today, I'll have to leave DirecTV and go Dish or Comcast, neither of which sound really appealing. I care enough about my TV watching, and have lived through enough reliable DVRs, that I'm not willing to take a chance on something like the HR20 (as it exists now)

My point was simply to point out that there are many more people satisfied. I won't pretend to make up numbers, as the POC/POS people have. It is irrelevant to me.

There have been NO software releases for several weeks, which is a potential problem, if you are experiencing problems. But then, why would you expect to see something fixed, if you know there are no releases? Some people are posting that "for the fifth day in a row", after posting "for the fourth day in a row", etc. But if you have a problem, and it is software related, and DTV knows about it, as we are sure they do at this point, why rant? NOTHING will get accomplished. If those who really feel they have problems contact DTV, that's the best they can do.

I know about software design and issues, as that is roughly my line of work. And I do think that DTV has percieved to be non-responsive, but I know how long fixes can take. DTV is in several catch-22's here. People wanted this box, so they released it early. Then they wanted OTA, so they forced it through. But all of the development that should have been done, with a proper release date, got pushed aside because "we" (the user community) DEMANDED this box.

I don't want to start another long thread on the merits of this or that sytle (TIVO vs DTV) or pros and cons of one box over the other. I was merely stating there are definitely people out there with no problems, so that outsiders reading the forum don't think we have a 100% bogus box.

 

[btmoore]

Well,

Having sat quietly in the background, listening to the clear minority (who I believe have actual problems), ...!

My point was simply to point out that there are many more people satisfied. ...

I am glad the HR20 is working well for you, I know myself and there are others who wish they could feel the same way. My only issues with your statement is that you state it is a "clear minority" that have problems, or that there are "many more people satisfied", if you have real data provide it and your source, if it is your opinion then please state it as your opinion that you think that this is true. We have no data on how many people are having problems vs ones that don't, but we can say that there appears to be a relatively high number of issues that have been reported on this forum and we have had reports from people who disclose their source to D* that D* recognizes many of these product defects and is trying to work to fix them. Unless you have some real statistical data with sources if you would refrain from stating that opinion as fact I don't think anyone would have any issues with you reporting your success and happiness with your HR20s.

 

[djstough]

I am glad the HR20 is working well for you, I know myself and there are others who wish they could feel the same way. My only issues with your statement is that you state it is a "clear minority" that have problems, or that there are "many more people satisfied", if you have real data provide it and your source, if it is your opinion then please state it as your opinion that you think that this is true. We have no data on how many people are having problems vs ones that don't, but we can say that there appears to be a relatively high number of issues that have been reported on this forum and we have had reports from people who disclose their source to D* that D* recognizes many of these product defects and is trying to work to fix them. Unless you have some real statistical data with sources if you would refrain from stating that opinion as fact I don't think anyone would have any issues with you reporting your success and happiness with your HR20s.

We do have a poll, (which I couldn't locate on a quick re-scan) that showed somewhere north of 60% were happy. That is clearly a majority.

Go watch some football, and stop trying to be so negative! Any time you quote a number, you think it should be accepted, and someone else quotes a range, and you want justification!

 

[Blitz68]

We do have a poll, (which I couldn't locate on a quick re-scan) that showed somewhere north of 60% were happy. That is clearly a majority.

Go watch some football, and stop trying to be so negative! Any time you quote a number, you think it should be accepted, and someone else quotes a range, and you want justification!

I agree. He is one of the minority posters who complain all the time about the HR20.

I suppose if complainers do nothing but post all the time it makes it look like alot of people are having a problem when it is the same few people posting all the time. And they might have multiple log ins.

 

[Sharkie_Fan]

I agree. He is one of the minority posters who complain all the time about the HR20.

I suppose if complainers do nothing but post all the time it makes it look like alot of people are having a problem when it is the same few people posting all the time. And they might have multiple log ins.

While I agree with you that BTMoore is one of the repeat posters lamenting the state of the HR20, his posts are clearly colored by his personal experience, which is to be expected. And though I don't necessarily agree with much of what he says, I dont' have a problem with his input into these various threads.

As the OP has mentioned, it's the other ones who start a thread daily to state "I had to do a RBR, this machine is a complete POS, but I'm stuck." These are the threads that get old. We're aware that there are problems. We don't need a daily running commentary of your blow by blow struggles with the HR20.

Just my .02 ...

 

[Blitz68]

While I agree with you that BTMoore is one of the repeat posters lamenting the state of the HR20, his posts are clearly colored by his personal experience, which is to be expected. And though I don't necessarily agree with much of what he says, I dont' have a problem with his input into these various threads.

As the OP has mentioned, it's the other ones who start a thread daily to state "I had to do a RBR, this machine is a complete POS, but I'm stuck." These are the threads that get old. We're aware that there are problems. We don't need a daily running commentary of your blow by blow struggles with the HR20.

Just my .02 ...

I agree :sure:

 

[lewah33]

I agree. He is one of the minority posters who complain all the time about the HR20.

I suppose if complainers do nothing but post all the time it makes it look like alot of people are having a problem when it is the same few people posting all the time. And they might have multiple log ins.

Or, the ppl who don't post anymore have sent their HR-20s back - like me. Too many missed recordings, audio dropouts, the lack of a dual tuner, the freezes,l the reboots and the inability of a wish-list to be confined to the channels I receive did it for me.

 

[btmoore]

Any time you quote a number, you think it should be accepted, and someone else quotes a range, and you want justification!

Please find a post where I quote numbers. The search function is public and I have some 700+ posts so you are welcome to search all of them. The only numbers I think I have quoted are the number of releases and there is hard data to support that number. I only post my experience and reference posts of others who can provide additional supporting data. If you have an issue with some data I posted please bring it to my attention.

 

[btmoore]

I agree. He is one of the minority posters who complain all the time about the HR20.

I suppose if complainers do nothing but post all the time it makes it look like alot of people are having a problem when it is the same few people posting all the time. And they might have multiple log ins.

I just provide reports of my experience, and while you may not appreciate them I do receive many note thanking me for taking to time to try provide some clear documentation to what is going on with the HR20, I also try to separate my opinion page from my reporting. Does my reporting get colored by my experience at time, it likely does, but life is like that.

If you have knowledge of people with multiple log ins, I believe that is a violation of the forum rules, you should report it, rather than insinuate that there is some kind of conspiracy.

One more thing to consider, if you don't like complainers, how do you feel about yourself as a complainer about complainers.

Since this is a forum about HR20s' vs a forum about people that complain, it would appear that the people who are complaining about their HR20s have a much better leg to stand on regarding the value of their posts, than the ones who are posting complaints about them complaining.

 

[HarleyD]

Jeez, for the life of me I can't figure out why some people are so fixated on the problems of a piece of electronic equipment that they don't even own (or lease). Either get the thing or not. If you actually had one your opinions would hold more water.

Because we maybe WANT to upgrade to HD and our only option is a piece of equipment with a demonstrated potential for instability and unrelaibility. It's a crap shoot. Maybe no problems. Maybe some problems. Maybe chronic failure.

So we either have to pony up an potentially not get what we paid for...or do without.

Yeah, no reason to complain there.

 

[brittonx]

Please find a post where I quote numbers. The search function is public and I have some 700+ posts so you are welcome to search all of them. The only numbers I think I have quoted are the number of releases and there is hard data to support that number. I only post my experience and reference posts of others who can provide additional supporting data. If you have an issue with some data I posted please bring it to my attention.

While we may not have a post from you quoting numbers, here is a link to the poll on this site asking if people want to trade in their HR20.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=75177
At this point 78% want to keep their HR20 and have had few if any issues with it.

It is good in public forums such as this for people to post their experiences. However, it does not help when some individuals (I'm not saying you) over inflate the scope. I've already responded to one topic where the poster claimed that most of the HR20 users were having serious problems. This is absolutely not the case based on the earlier linked poll.

 

[Howie]

Because we maybe WANT to upgrade to HD and our only option is a piece of equipment with a demonstrated potential for instability and unrelaibility. It's a crap shoot. Maybe no problems. Maybe some problems. Maybe chronic failure.

So we either have to pony up an potentially not get what we paid for...or do without.

Yeah, no reason to complain there.

Again, either get the thing or not. Your complaints have no merit without hands on experience with the unit.

 

[edmartin]

This is unbelievable. Fine, there are some issues with the HR20. Fine, some people are having them. Fine, others are not. Fine, we could debate until next year the relative percentages. Fine, those people having issues have the right to - and the rest of us actually thank them for - post(ing) their/your experiences. But why in God's name are you attacking each other? All due respect, BT, but try decaf! You are a disgruntled user/owner/leaser. Perhaps if you were less of an attacker, more of us would sympathize with you. But you're taking your frustrations with D* and attacking others here. Enough, really! We're not the enemy. We're your co-owners/leasers. We're in this WITH you, not against you. But God forbid someone says something nice about the HR20 - you jump all over them/us. Lighten up, Francis (any Stripes fans out there?)

Put me down on the side of people that have had some problems with the HR20 but like the device. I guess that puts me in the ~80% in the poll here on the forum that have said that they wouldn't trade the HR20 if given the opportunity. OK, BT, no doubt you are in the other 20%. I'm sorry about that - can't do a damned thing about it but I am sorry... for what it's worth. Personally, I've appreciated D* support when I have called. My installer was good. This forum has been awesome. Except, of course, for the few that just want to take their frustration and turn it into hostility and attack. But go attack D* support or someone who can actually do something about your hardware issues rather than a user group that has no development, service or support abilities.

I'm not surprised you receive notes of thanks about your detailed reports of problems. Here, in public, I also thank you for that. I bet we all do. Good stuff. But it's when you complain about the complainers about the complainers that you lose credibility (and an audience). It's when you attack that you lose it, too.

Again, people here are not the enemy. We're in the same boat (albeit at different levels of problems). But this is heading toward a ludicrous in-fight among the crew. If D* were truly evil, they'd probably look at this and laugh at what a bunch of buffoons we look like belittling each other instead of focusing the energy on the true issue and those that can solve it.

Appologies for getting personal toward someone that's getting too personal but let's be productive, shall we?

Back to the topic - djstough, I like my HR20, too. Thanks for your post. Last I checked, about 80% in the forum poll agree with you.

 

[HarleyD]

Again, either get the thing or not. Your complaints have no merit without hands on experience with the unit.

Why would I spend money on equipment with a shaky track record?

That's my complaint. I want to buy an HD DVR. D* offers only one, and it has not proven to be a safe investment. There is a very reasonable chance that I could shell out money and have a unit that does not do what I bought it for.

Following your logic (and I use the term very loosely), I should spend my money and then if it is problematic I can complain. But then I'm out the money, and I still don't have what I wanted.

No. How foolish would I have to be to buy something, KNOWING it may not work right and then complain when it didn't.

It's not unreasonable to want a reliable option, nor is it unreasonable to be dissatisfied that no such option exists.

It's easy to be pious when the problems are someone elses.

 

[Howie]

Why would I spend money on equipment with a shaky track record?

That's my complaint. I want to buy an HD DVR. D* offers only one, and it has not proven to be a safe investment. There is a very reasonable chance that I could shell out money and have a unit that does not do what I bought it for.

Following your logic (and I use the term very loosely), I should spend my money and then if it is problematic I can complain. But then I'm out the money, and I still don't have what I wanted.

No.

It's not unreasonable to want a reliable option, nor is it unreasonable to be dissatisfied that no such option exists.

It's easy to be pious when the problems are someone elses.

Actually, you're not following my logic. I'm saying either get one or do not get one. It makes no sense to complain about something that you don't even have. Many of the units are reliable. I would recommend that you jump right in. HD is great. I personally will not watch something that is not in HD (with a few exceptions - The Wire, The Shield, local news).

Now on to more important matters. When I was in college (more than a few years ago) I had a bathroom poster of Frank Zappa sitting on the toilet. The caption was "Phi Zappa Krappa." I loved that poster - I don't know what ever happened to it.

And if your avatar is not Frank Zappa, please disregard the above paragraph.

 

[Citivas]

Well,

Having sat quietly in the background, listening to the clear minority (who I believe have actual problems), I felt it was time for this post.

Here is what I have:

2 HR20's
2 HR10's
1 R15
2 SD Tivo units

My system is running on all new RG6 (house built 13 months ago), and I have two Zinwell WB68's, giving me 16 ports available to use. One of the HR20's has a diplexed OTA antenna, and the other has a dedicated OTA feed to it.

Other than the fact that the first unit brought by the tech (who showed up on the date and time specified) being dead on SAT2, which he replaced the next morning, I have had no problems.

No lost recordings.
No Black Screens.
I have noticed in my history that there are shows listed as cancelled, but somehow think this is a strange software bug, as all of these items are in the future, and they all still show up as scheduled items, and they record appropriately.

My HR10's are no longer connected as backup, and will probably be posted on Ebay soon!

That's great for you. Congrats.

Unfortunatley that's not a lot of people's experience. Some others have yours, and many others have systems that don't record half their shows and reset almost daily... The issue doesn't seem to be the the HR-20 doesn't work for anyone -- it obviously does -- though many people who have posted like you later post that theirs starts failing too. The issue is many units have severe failures and DirecTV is claiming it is a software issue so we can't just replace them. In the meantime, they are basically useless as DVR's (not saying the HR-20 is useless in general, just that the many failed uits are for those owners)...

 

[HarleyD]

Yep, that's Frank. From the cover of "Chunga's Revenge".

I'm tweaked because I wanted to buy an HD DVR last August...and could have had an HR10 at that time.

The CSR talked me into waiting becuase the newer, better box would be available in just 30 days.

So I could have had an HR10, which would have been adequate and I could have used that until the bugs are worked out with the HR20, which I am sure they will do eventually. Or release a better model to replace it. Either way I'm sure they won't stand pat with what they have today.

Instead I have nothing and I'm just not going to sink my money into it before I see signs of significant improvement in the code. I'm frustrated by this.

Even many of the folks who are happy with the HR20 report anomalies and malfunctions. They are just content to live with it.

I'm not even waiting for perfect. I'd like it to be as reliable as my R10 is though. I don't think that's too much to look for.

PS I had the Phi Zappa Krappa poster about 30 years ago too. I left it hanging on the wall of the place I was moving out of. I was too lazy to try to find a way to pack it without folding it. I figured I'd just get another one. The foolishness of youth.