[RCY]

TiVo's Slip freezes one frame for 30 seconds. So you can't see the next 719 frames.
- Craig

The original point you had made (as I understood it) was that the skip was blind for 2 minutes of "skips". I see a frame every 30 seconds, and am thus able to tell if the commercial break is over. If I've overshot, I hit instant replay a time or two, and I'm at the restart of my program. Obviously, skip is not looking at every frame - it would then be a "slip". My point is that I can very quickly get through a commercial break of any length, be it 120 seconds or 133.5 seconds faster than a "slip".

I understand you (and many others like slip). Enjoy!

 

[Doug Brott]

i just want to pop this toward the top for a few more hours.

 

[jaywdetroit]

I'm saving my vote. I need to use this feature for a few days to see if it is a suitable solution. My initial thought though is that this is a VAST improvement and it is welcome.

I spent enough time watching last night.

I think this current 30 slip is pretty good. It's acceptable. I think I still prefer my method on the TIVO which is to use 3x and press play just as I see the first frame of the show. I am pretty good at that and rarely have to correct where I land. I never used TIVOs skip feature.

I think right now I am content, but would be in fact completely satisfied if the sped up the 30 sec slip by a 1/2 second or so. Either way - watching my shows on the HR20 was much less frustrating last night, than it has been in the past.

 

[dervari]

It's a moot point. We'll never see a true 30sec skip...

 

[mtnagel]

I spent enough time watching last night.

I think this current 30 slip is pretty good. It's acceptable. I think I still prefer my method on the TIVO which is to use 3x and press play just as I see the first frame of the show. I am pretty good at that and rarely have to correct where I land. I never used TIVOs skip feature.

Me too. I'm still trying to figure out what I like more - slip vs FF. I only watched 1 show on the HR20 last night and the 30 sec slip seemed pretty good, but it seems like the commercial breaks varied from 4- 8 commercials. Is there any rhyme or reason to when they do what?

I think the 3x is smoother too as it only took me a few relays to get back to the beginning instead of 6-10. It's funny because I watched the Office on the R10 (recording conflicts and with the screwy timing, that was the easiest thing to do) and now when using the 3x FF on the Tivo, I was pressing the play too fast and it was going into the commercials. Before, I had my timing down to where I was see the show and pause a moment before hitting play and it was pretty good. But with the HR20, I try to be as fast a possible.

 

[Capmeister]

If D* going to reduce the 'slip time' to two seconds this time, making the commercials essentially unwatchable (thankfully), I suggest they just bite the bullet and either make an 'immediate' skip option, or the only choice. If there is some contingent of users who prefers to view the commercials - they could use one of the various FF choices.

Just my $.02

I disagree. It's just fast enough to not be "I have to watch the annoying commercial" but shows just enough of the commercial to show me if I want to go back and take look at it, which sometimes I do. I like it just as it is now.

 

[Chris Blount]

I disagree. It's just fast enough to not be "I have to watch the annoying commercial" but shows just enough of the commercial to show me if I want to go back and take look at it, which sometimes I do. I like it just as it is now.

I agree. I kind of like it the way it is now. It's fast enough where to don't wait long and you still get a quick look at what transpired during the commercial break.

 

[Milominderbinder2]

I only watched 1 show on the HR20 last night and the 30 sec slip seemed pretty good, but it seems like the commercial breaks varied from 4- 8 commercials. Is there any rhyme or reason to when they do what?

We are in the middle of an advertiser's revolt against DVRs. Broadcasters are just starting to ramp up the use of variable length commercial slots. More of the technical details are here.

Philips took out a patent on a TV in April that requires you to watch the commercial unless you pay a fee. Click here to read about it.

The new Fast Slip let's us catch them when they try to do a quick cut back out of commercial.

Fast Slip good!

- Craig

 

[jbart1965]

I think Milominder explains it well. I like the improved 30-second slip better than skip. It allows me to scan a sports game quickly, in bursts, and stop when I see something interesting. And sometimes I overshoot moving thru the commercials.

I hated the old 30-sec slip, but the new version is terrific.

 

[Milominderbinder2]

By the way, I am one of the minority 14 who answered NO in the poll.

Is the 0xEF improvement to 30s Slip a suitable workaround to 30s Skip?

I answered NO because the new Fast Slip is not a suitable workaround for the old Skip.

Fast Slip is the next generation upgrade replacing Skip.

Now that I understand better, please move my NO vote to a YES.

- Craig

Mr. Subliminal says: Skip bad. Slip Good!

 

[RCY]

We are in the middle of an advertiser's revolt against DVRs. Broadcasters are just starting to ramp up the use of variable length commercial slots. More of the technical details are here.

Philips took out a patent on a TV in April that requires you to watch the commercial unless you pay a fee. Click here to read about it.

The new Fast Slip let's us catch them when they try to do a quick cut back out of commercial.

Fast Slip good!

- Craig

Thanks for posting this. Narrows my search for an HDTV by one - I don't have to worry about Phillips anymore. Or any other Phillips product.

 

[mjs31]

Mark me as really liking the slip over the skip. I like being able to see where I am at and 1.5 - 2 secs per commercial is not bad at all

 

[Doug Brott]

This poll will remain open until 12/2/206, but I believe that we have built a consensus. I am going to remove this item from the Wish List.

 

[bonscott87]

Honestly I don't use either. I prefer 2x or 3x FFW then replay a couple times out of the break.

I always hated the 30 sec skip on a Tivo and never used it, perferring FFW as above. But with all the raves about the new slip I may need to give it a try.

 

[Andrew_J_M]

Thanks for posting this. Narrows my search for an HDTV by one - I don't have to worry about Phillips anymore. Or any other Phillips product.

Just because they have a patent doesn't mean they will implement it, in fact it could be to our advantage in that the notworks can't now patent the same functionality and force anyone to use it.

 

[Andrew_J_M]

This poll will remain open until 12/2/206, but I believe that we have built a consensus. I am going to remove this item from the Wish List.

Doug, I don't understand the logic of removing it from the wish list. Like most here (in this thread) I prefer to use the improved slip to Tivo's skip, in fact I gave up reprogramming the Tivo remotes for the skip so always used FF.

But there are Tivo fanatics out there who do like/love the skip, if you remove it from the Wish List they will cry foul. It would be better to leave it on and let it die by dropping into low number zone.

 

[RCY]

Just because they have a patent doesn't mean they will implement it, in fact it could be to our advantage in that the notworks can't now patent the same functionality and force anyone to use it.

All that means is that Phillips would collect licencing $$ from the networks. Personally, I seriously doubt the FCC would allow this for OTA, but there are enough other brands out there that I'd rather not reward Phillips with my $$.

This reminds me a bit of the initial position taken that HD PC receiver cards would be disabled from recording HD OTA signals. Once the outcry got loud enough, the FCC backed off.

 

[Milominderbinder2]

Doug, I don't understand the logic of removing it from the wish list. Like most here (in this thread) I prefer to use the improved slip to Tivo's skip, in fact I gave up reprogramming the Tivo remotes for the skip so always used FF.

But there are Tivo fanatics out there who do like/love the skip, if you remove it from the Wish List they will cry foul. It would be better to leave it on and let it die by dropping into low number zone.

Skip is one feature on the Wishlist that now would actually take away another feature. I wish the survey asked,
Should the new HR20 fast Slip feature be eliminated and replaced with the TiVo Skip.

In fairness, you would have to limit the poll somehow to just people who have ever actually seen the new Fast Slip. One person voting NO admitted that they do not have an HR20! I also think that for an improvement this large, you would really need to wait 90 days to let it's effect be felt.

Doug, if you keep the question, it maybe should be stated as a new question in light of the new fast Slip. The previous replies from before the Fast Slip was introduced do not apply now. Maybe retire the old item and place a new one:
Eliminate the new HR20 Fast Slip (Advance) feature and replace it with the TiVo Skip.

I think this would set a record for how low a score could go.

- Craig

 

[RCY]

Skip is one feature on the Wishlist that now would actually take away another feature. I wish the survey asked,
Should the new HR20 fast Slip feature be eliminated and replaced with the TiVo Skip.

In fairness, you would have to limit the poll somehow to just people who have ever actually seen the new Fast Slip. One person voting NO admitted that they do not have an HR20! I also think that for an improvement this large, you would really need to wait 90 days to let it's effect be felt.

Doug, if you keep the question, it maybe should be stated as a new question in light of the new fast Slip. The previous replies from before the Fast Slip was introduced do not apply now. Maybe retire the old item and place a new one:
Eliminate the new HR20 Fast Slip (Advance) feature and replace it with the TiVo Skip.

I think this would set a record for how low a score could go.

- Craig

I've tried to make some civil points about slip vs. skip in response to a comment you made on their relative speed and useability. In fact, I started by saying I don't have an HR20 and wanted to know how much faster it was. I'd like to get a HDTV and a DVR for it, and being a D*customer am considering the HR20. It was not some "admission" sheepishly given after you "caught me". Whether D* likes it or not, there are a segment of folks waiting on the HR20 before plunging in. By the way, I have no particular allegiance to Tivo or any other DVR as a platform. Back when Earl posted his R15 review on Tivo community, I was one who objected when he was forced to remove his review and R15 discussion from that board. I'll go back to lurking now...:nono2:

 

[jaywdetroit]

Just because they have a patent doesn't mean they will implement it, in fact it could be to our advantage in that the notworks can't now patent the same functionality and force anyone to use it.

That's what I was thinking. That perhaps they did this to make it so no one else will - but I doubt it.

If Phillips builds this TV,
there are a few things I know for certain:

1. I will never purchase anything from them again (knowingly, of course).
2. I will not watch any network that uses the technology.
3. My monthly DVR fee entitles me to skip commercials in my mind - which is a big reason I pay that fee.
4. The day I have to pay for the privilege of using the DVR I ALREADY pay for, is the day I turn my TV off permanently. There are lots of good books I've been meaning to read.